Joe O'Toole (Independent)

No; there was no economist wearing an economist's hat. I will come to Garret in a second. It is important to recognise that the trade unions, the Government, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and everybody else needs to be informed of the reality of the situation. That is happening.

I heard no one in the past two or three weeks argue about the fact that savings of €4 billion were needed. I want to focus on what former Taoiseach Garret FitzGerald said this morning. I have made the point many times in the past two weeks that the Government is discussing a format which, to boil it down to simplicity, will involve doing something over a three year period, with no increase in personal taxation but with the introduction of other taxes. The trade union movement, the social partners and groups such as the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and others have said this policy is too harsh and that we should implement changes over a six year period and increase taxes. It is interesting that there is always a third way. I have been saying this here for weeks on end. It is interesting that this morning Garret FitzGerald came out with a third way, which involves maintaining the three year period to implement changes and also introducing additional taxes. Such a view is contrary to Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael policy but mirrors what the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, said in introducing the budget.

I put the proposal before the House. There are ways to move forward. We need to give the people hope for the future. We need to say to workers, trade unionists and others that if they have to take the pain which might include salary cuts, we can do it over a period of time and that we will do what Deputy Richard Bruton said yesterday, that is, benchmark our way out of it or, as the Taoiseach said earlier this week, allow for bridging until we achieve the necessary savings, as they cannot come quickly enough. It is a matter of focusing on the possible solutions and making them work.