David Norris (Independent)

I thank Senator Buttimer for giving me time to take part in this important debate. I commend my colleague, Senator Ross, on a superb political manoeuvre. He has been talking about this for many years, before most of the other Senators became Members of the House. I remember him raising this matter many years ago. Both he and Senator O'Toole did a remarkable job. I listened with delight to part of what Senator Ross said, as he attacked the subject with his usual panache and wit. I thought that there was revealed not just a fantastic investigative journalist, but also a superb post-modernist, comic dramatist manqué because he quoted slabs of Senator Boyle and other members of the Green Party. As Oscar Wilde remarked perceptively: "It all depends on who's saying something". That is what the dramatist sees. It was very interesting and important to have Senator Boyle and the Government confronted with their own words, not just a dramatic trick. If we are looking for openness, accountability and transparency, it is important to measure performance between what is spouted in opposition and what is put into practice in Government. This evening we had a remarkable and ironic job in that regard. It is important to put this matter up to the Government.

With regard to openness, accountability and transparency, quite a number of years ago, I raised in this House the fact that a document had come into my hands. It was a Supplementary Estimate for various things, including the secret service, which then cost €100,000. I thought the fact they were declaring a budget head of that sum for the Irish secret service was really openness, transparency and accountability in practice. As I pointed out, however, the Irish secret service was a contradiction in terms, an oxymoron, rather like its counterpart, British intelligence. There could be no such thing as an Irish secret service, because we cannot keep a secret. We now have it again in the sum of €200,000.

Some serious issues were highlighted in the debate. On some of the State boards we have serious concerns about the quality, methodology and reason for appointing certain people. The Government addressed this matter not by reforming it or opening it to competition, but instead by having a much more closed situation where the Minister appoints directly. That is actually worse. It is a catastrophic disgrace, but it is all of a piece. I remember when the legislation to establish the Competition Authority was debated in this House. I happened to notice that there was no competition or openness for positions within the Competition Authority itself. I put down amendments that were eventually and reluctantly accepted. That body was vested with the authority to supervise this kind of material on behalf of other people.

I looked at the Minister of State's speech and agreed with some of it. It is important we do not dishearten the ordinary members of State bodies. This State has been very well served since the time of Seán Lemass by decent people who have a sense of honour and decency and who have done remarkable work. That does not mean the system should be immune from criticism, as the Minister of State concedes. However, his following arguments concerning the Minister and the wonderful way in which the appointments were made and how inherently open this was, when really it is not I found to be somewhat weak

The Minister of State then delighted me by saying that the House also needed to form its view before we rush to another moral untested conclusion. The spectacle of this Government rushing anywhere would be a prospect to be greatly welcomed. This has, I believe, been a Government of very considerable caution.

On the question of international bodies, I am slightly extending the matter here. It would be very regrettable if this Government appeared to be on the point of supporting Tony Blair as President of the European Union. I cannot think of a more discredited international figure, especially in the light of his disgraceful behaviour with regard to the Iraq war. I would appeal to the Minister to take back to his colleagues the widespread feelings among people throughout the country about this issue. I hear it all the time and I see it in the newspapers that the ordinary people of Ireland are revolted by the Iraq war and the appallingly inopportune appointment of Blair as a Middle East negotiator.

On the question of a code of practice for good governance on State bodies and so on, I have served on a number of boards. I have never been paid, but my antennae go up when I hear people prating about good governance. The retreat of a person into prating about good governance is analogous to the last refuge of the scoundrel, as Johnson described patriotism. Such persons always have something Machiavellian up their sleeves. The mechanism is so complicated and burdensome that the Government is not going to do it. I commend Senators Ross and O'Toole. It was a wonderful witty lively evening and also has a serious political point.