John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister of State back home to the Seanad. I thank Senator Ross for proposing this Bill and Fine Gael will be supporting its second reading in the House. I compliment him and Senator Boyle on their research. I hope Senator Boyle is present in this House when I quote certain remarks made in the other House when a similar Bill was proposed in March 2007. A similar Private Members' Bill was also proposed by Fine Gael quite recently in the other House. The issue of State appointments to public bodies is one of public concern, not least because of the efforts of Senator Ross and others in uncovering some difficulties on State boards over the last few years. For that reason, it is important to have this discussion.

Senator Callely spoke about allowing flexibility for the Minister of the day. This Bill does not remove flexibility from the Minister, but is about proposing a new mechanism of appointments which would allow the Oireachtas to question people who are going forward for State board positions. As Senator O'Toole pointed out, the Government has a majority in both Houses, so the Government is still in a position to appoint people through any Oireachtas State board appointees committee following questioning of candidates by Members. This Bill does not propose to remove all flexibility from the Government.

I do not favour the position that being a supporter of a political party should disbar somebody from membership of a State board. The majority of those who serve on State boards are good, decent, honest people. The majority of them have knowledge about what they do on the boards. However, I cannot help recognising in my seven years in this House that some faces and names just keep on popping up. I know of one individual who stood for the Fianna Fáil Party in at least one election who has been on several State boards in my seven years here, and who is currently the chairman of a board. He has no obvious expertise in that position. The area of patronage is something we should question in this House, even though Senator Callely more or less said that we should not.

All this was brought into stark relief by the former Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, who said he appointed his friends to State boards. His friends undoubtedly have some knowledge on particular issues and they certainly knew their way around the place, as he did himself. However, just to appoint somebody because he or she is a friend or because he or she holds certain political beliefs is not sufficient. It is not acceptable in 2009, especially given the juncture in which we find ourselves where people are being forced to make major changes in their lifestyle. We cannot continue the practice as it has been heretofore. That is what this Bill is about.

Senator Boyle has joined us, just as I was about to quote him from a speech he gave in the Dáil in March 2007. He said that:

We have improved the nature and quality of democracy here. There were, however, some major difficulties along the way. The acceptance of democratic procedures that are less than perfect means that a culture under which corruption is practised and, even worse, tolerated can be brought into being.

He went on to state that "It is also a challenge to other parties to join the Green Party's initiative on this area of political reform". He spoke about how we were on the eve of a general election and he called on others to join the party's agenda and initiative on such reform. The Green Party has now been in Government for two years, but its members have not been able to introduce this type of reform.

Senator Boyle was followed by the then Opposition Deputy Eamon Ryan, who went even further in his criticism of the current system, which still exists now that he is in Government. Deputy Ryan spoke about the public cynicism surrounding appointments to State boards and that the public sees the system as corrupt. It is a system over which he now presides and has done nothing heretofore to reform. Deputy Ryan stated:

The Irish people are not stupid and they see it as it is, that the parties opposite have been so long in power that they have become corrupted by power, and that they appoint friends to bodies on the basis of medieval kings in their fiefdoms granting favours.

I could not put that any better myself, even though he has not acted on it. He went on to point out that when State board appointments came up, there is always one position for the Progressive Democrats and whatever number left for Fianna Fáil. It must now be one for the Green Party and whatever number left for Fianna Fáil. Perhaps Senator Boyle and the current Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources may be able to enlighten me on that issue.

There was a telling exchange of views between the Minister for Finance at the time and the man who is now leader of the Green Party, Deputy Gormley. Deputy Gormley said that the then Deputy Boyle should get an award for the Bill he had proposed.