Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)

I had anticipated that a colleague would come in to conclude the debate but I am pleased to do so.

The point Senator Cummins made about recess is a valid one and is one of the issues we must work through. We now have a blank canvass on which we can explore a much more meaningful role on the part of the Houses of the Oireachtas.

I agree wholeheartedly with Senator Alex White that we must elevate the debate about Europe in this country. It must get away from the minutiae and the meaningless "Yes it does, no it doesn't" exchange which is irritating, boring and drives people away. It must focus on the higher plain and the issues Senator Quinn touched on, which are the concerns about federalism.

The argument that has gone on in Europe for far too long about whether Europe is federalist or unitary is a nonsensical argument because Europe is an entirely different project. It is a remarkable project, and that is the sense I get from the last contribution. It is a project where 27 sovereign states pool small amounts of their sovereignty to achieve a greater purpose. What greater purpose could have been achieved in the second half of the 20th century than to create an area of peace? That is what was created, but all too frequently the value of that contribution is overlooked.

Senator Norris raised a concern, and I am glad Senator White touched on the issue of the charter, but in that respect I will mention one issue in the charter which I believe shows how uplifting this treaty is. It is not a prosaic piece of text. On the issue of non-discrimination, Article 21 states: "Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation shall be prohibited." It is extraordinary to aspire to a Europe where all people are equal.

At the outset the charter expresses the very essence of Europe and the perversity of some of the arguments that are made. Article 6 states that everybody has the right to liberty and the security of the person. Senator White is correct in that it is up to us to make the charter work. Article 1 states that human dignity is inviolable and must be respected and protected. We live in a Europe which is based on principles and which has been crafted by men and women who knew the horrors of war. We live in a Europe that has been built on solid foundations. I thank the Senators for the strong engagement in today's debate and I regret that it could not have been a more extended one.

What we have seen in the 15 months between the first and the second Irish referendum is something magical. We have seen democracy at work in this nation where the people rendered a judgment in June of last year that shocked many of us and the Taoiseach, standing in Government Buildings, said that was the sovereign decision of the people. We may have wished it would have been otherwise but that is what bound us in our actions. We then took that decision to our European colleagues and partners and did they point the finger? No. Was there bullying? No. Was there hectoring? There was not. There was a respect that this was the voice of a sovereign people and it had to be listened to.

Shortly after the referendum President Sarkozy came here and while travelling to the French Embassy we had a private conversation on the issue of the Commissioner. There were many coherent arguments, and Senator Quinn made some of them, for having a smaller Commission but he said if that is what the Irish people have said is required, we must listen to the Irish people. This was such a different view of Europe from the view characterised on a poster, with three monkeys saying: "Won't see you, won't hear you, won't speak for you." That was so wrong. That is why I am pleased with the contribution made by Senator Alex White, and I do not say that in a patronising way. I agree with him that we must somehow or other elevate it.

Whatever the debates about what will happen in terms of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Members of the Oireachtas have a real role to play now. We can show the people that we are worth what we are paid and that we can deal with their cases. Whether it is the bog issue or an issue of some wider national importance, we can have real debates in both Houses and the pressure will be on us to make a coherent contribution.

On the issue of federalism, it is ironic that the debate did not deal with that issue because while some people see federalism as the way forward, we see it as a different way. The arrangements which have been made in Europe are the arrangements which accommodate both views.

The legal guarantees achieved were not just a triumph of Irish negotiations, as suggested in one of the British newspapers, or even a triumph of a government, although governments like to claim triumphs, they were a triumph of the Irish people. When we did the analysis last year we identified clear strands in the Irish people's decision in June 2008 and we took those concerns to our European partners. They listened to those concerns and responded in a way that allowed people who voted "No" on the previous occasion to change their view, as we have heard from Members of this House.

I thank the Members of the House. I regret I have to withdraw from the balance of the debate. The Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, will replace me. I extend a heartfelt thanks to all the Members of this House for their kindness and their comments but, most importantly, for their support for this project.