Joe O'Toole (Independent)

The Fine Gael leader played right into the Leader's hands and I do not know why he is smiling because the world knows that he has managed to outmanoeuvre the Green Party in its attempts to reform this House time and again. The Green Party must also play its part. All I will say about Fine Gael's proposal - unthinking and without rationale as it was - is that it might hasten some action from the Government, although I do not hold my breath.

More than anything else I would like the House to debate the aspects of Fine Gael proposals regarding the Dáil which are offensively anti-democratic. The idea of reducing the number of elected Deputies by 20 in general and having 20 in a list system means 40 fewer people elected to the Dáil. The leader of the Opposition is riding a populist wave to peel back the layers of democracy, getting rid of one House and reducing the numbers in the other House while having an inbuilt majority of 20 people in the parliamentary party to ensure his continued existence and that there is never a threat to him. It is appalling. It is the type of thing that happened in the recessions of the 1930s in Italy and Germany and I appeal to my colleagues in the Fine Gael benches to examine this more than the proposals for Seanad Éireann. We can deal with Seanad Éireann here; I am afraid of the chaps in the Lower House who do not see the full extent of what is being proposed.

This is distracting attention from issues that need to be dealt with. If anything needs to be reconsidered it is the proposal regarding taking power away from the people and giving it to party leadership, reducing the nature and centre of political democracy and always going backwards. This should be resisted. What we heard over the weekend is a regurgitation of the legacy we thought we had left behind with O'Duffy in the 1930s. This is going backwards. I hope every Fine Gael person who believes in democracy, and I know the people in front of me in this House do, will examine, analyse and consider the consequences of what is being proposed not just for this House but also for the other House.

The Leader is afraid of what would happen to this House were it to be elected by the people in general. I propose an amendment to the Order of Business that No. 31, motion 35 regarding the implementation of the recommendations of the Seanad reform document, be implemented. I want to hear from the Leader whether he accepts the basic principle of democracy that every citizen of the State should have a vote in some form or other in the election of this House as well as maintaining other things that are there at present.