Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)

I raise the issue of education. There was an excellent wide-ranging conference at Farmleigh involving the diaspora and successful business entrepreneurs, both Irish and others with strong Irish connections. A heavy emphasis was laid on education and developing a new vision for education. Could we have a debate with the Minister present who might outline to us some of the ideas and suggestions put forward at the conference with a view to determining what might be worked on and put into effect, given the constraints on public finances.

With regard to the main topic this morning, the expenses issue, I am a member of the commission and also of the audit committee. I fully accept the right and justification of The Irish Times to make a freedom of information request and in particular to deal with the resignation of the chairman of the audit committee. His letter has been published in full in The Irish Times. I thought it was somewhat unbalanced that the reply to the chairman of the audit committee from the Secretary General, who has no axe to grind as he is an independent member and the chief executive of the Houses of the Oireachtas, which was also part of the documents released to The Irish Times, was not also published in full to allow people to read both Mr. Higgins's point of view and the reply from the Secretary General. That would have brought more balance to it, which is important in this media pursuit of Members' expenses. There is an entitlement for them to do that, and there should be probity in politics - most politicians I am aware of want that - but there is a need also to take a balanced view.

The audit committee and the Oireachtas commission would have fully accepted the recommendations in the Goodbody report, an independent body, which was done on the commission prior to my involvement in it. Senator O'Toole has outlined that. That report was independently done and it preferred a system of certain minimum allowances, which as the Senator said was pitched at about 80% of what they reckon might be the norm, and that anything in excess of that would be vouched. That was passed in March 2008 by both the committee, signed off by the chairman of the audit committee, and the Oireachtas commission and sent to the Minister. The Minister, in reviewing that, had some issues with regard to vouching which needed to be clarified and we were then overtaken by the economic downturn, which changed the remit of the expenses issue. To be fair to the Minister, since then expenses have been reduced. He has taken action in that area. Little merit has been given to anybody in that regard. We need a system that is fair and reasonable both to the Members and to the taxpayers.