Cecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)

It is very difficult to come into the Chamber and say no to cuts and battle against the McCarthy report in so many respects. We object to this proposal today, will object to something else tomorrow, another item the next day and finally will run out of anything to cut because we will have no targets left.

I come from a peninsula, an area with a population of 32,000, where the biggest town has a population of approximately 5,000 and two other towns have a population of about 1,700. I was thinking about this issue while others were speaking and the phrase, "Romantic Ireland's dead and gone, it's with O'Leary in the grave," came to mind. County Donegal voted against the Lisbon treaty. Was it because people still went to Mass, or is it the case that activity in the county is still heavily based on fishing and farming and that people believed much of what had been said, whether it was true or false? We believed it to be false. These are fundamental issues in my constituency which is a rural one in which people have to be able to get around. The alternative is to sit at home. The lack of such socialisation leads to various issues concerning mental health and illness. Everybody knows that getting out and having a laugh with friends is one of the best forms of medicine available.

From that perspective, I object to or have a serious problem with the concept, based on what is contained in the McCarthy report, that not only the rural transport scheme but the Department also should disappear. I am partial because I support the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Ó Cuív. I say this with due respect to the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, who is present and also a very effective Minister. However, it was a different scenario to have to try to create a niche, which is what the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, did in rural and Gaeltacht areas. There is nothing he has not done for these areas. He has tried to get people to stay there, developing the CLÁR programme and providing supports. Why does the Opposition state the Government cannot remove this niche support now? Why do the people living in these communities say it cannot be taken away? It is because that in the past decade the Government put all of these measures in place and made the service important.

It is fascinating to speak straight after a Dub on the issue of rural transport. I never thought I would see the day because I would have thought rural areas in Dublin were well served in ways those of us living in rural Ireland might begrudge. We are driving other policies such tackling drink driving but, on the other hand, with this cut we say people cannot go to the pub, as they will have no way home if they have a drink. We say the same to those who seek access to mature student education courses which the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy O'Keeffe, has rolled out around the country in areas such as Clonmanny which is very well known for the high standard mature student courses delivered there. We are saying that unless people have cars, they cannot access these courses. The many people who do not have cars are the very ones we must bring into the system in order that eventually they will be able to run a car.

I am not blind to the other side of the argument. I know that there were many rural bus services which only three people were using. However, when they were to be removed, all of a sudden 400 people complained. The bus company might well have stated that if any of those 400 were using it, the service would not be removed. I understand there are arguments on many sides. From before 2003 I fought for Inishowen to be included as one of the zones for the pilot rural transport programme. I argued the case with the many Ministers who held the relevant portfolio. In my area a staggering amount of work was done to identify the right routes and the people who needed a service the most to ensure it was delivered. Now we can look at the statistics. We have talked about expanding the numbers from 40,000 to 140,000 in five years.

Let us look at rural transport but let us also look at how we can do it better. People speak about wasting money conducting feasibility studies. I do not want to see money spent in that way. People talk about school buses not being used from one end of the day to the other when they could be usefully deployed. The same is true of school buildings. Why are they closed at a certain time and not opened to the public?

This debate is bigger than rural transport. It is fundamentally about the need for a Minister with responsibility for rural affairs and a Department of rural and Gaeltacht affairs. Such a Department cannot operate on its own and the Minister does not do so. He wangles, if that is not a terribly bad expression, provisions from the Ministers with responsibility for education and the environment and other Departments to ensure that if another Department gives a euro, his Department will provide, perhaps, 50 cent.

The Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs has been very effective. Things must be run with a bottom-up approach. Someone cannot sit back in an ivory tower in Dublin and identify an easy way to save money. I challenge anyone who has engaged with the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, and his Department, at a local or national level, to say his is not the best operating Department.

I quoted the lines:

Romantic Ireland's dead and gone

It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Maintaining rural Ireland should not be a romantic notion. It should be a factual position to accommodate people in their own areas. I challenge people to continue to use rural transport, to continue to develop the service and to try to cut costs, where possible, by using other services in the area. However, we cannot cut off the rural transport service. It was only recently provided after a long battle and it is highly valued. Far from romantic Ireland being with O'Leary in the grave, rural Ireland could be dead and gone and put by McCarthy in the grave, which would not be to the benefit of anyone or any community. It is certainly not to the benefit of Ireland Incorporated.

The motion and counter-motion have the same thrust. There are challenges in the rural transport service but babies and bathwater should not be confused on this occasion.