Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. Tá cúrsaí pleanála thar a bheith conspóideach sa tír seo agus tugann éinne a bhíonn ag plé cúrsaí pleanála faoi deara go bhfuil freagraí ag teastáil ar an-chuid de na socruithe atá déanta in áiteanna éagsúla. Tá súil agam go gcabhróidh an Bille seo maidir le daonlathas áitiúil agus go mbeimid sásta éisteacht le daoine áitiúil ag a bhfuil an t-eolas maidir leis an gceantar. Caithfimid smaoineamh freisin ar chúrsaí eacnamaíochta mar, chomh maith le dea-phleanáil, tá siad thar a bheith tábhachtach agus tá sin i gceist sa Bhille.

Planning is controversial. One can accept that a part of the controversy may emanate from the fact that someone is not happy to have received a refusal, even a deserved one. It is important that much of the mystique of the planning code be lifted and that logic be attached to the decisions. Several times, I have visited locations where planning had either been granted or refused. Finding logic in the refusals proved difficult when permission was granted for something else that seemed more questionable. I will bow to professionalism and accept that we might not fully understand the intent, but that argument can be stretched too far and local knowledge, common sense and an area's social and economic requirements could be ignored. In this regard, I hope the Bill, which deals with economic renewal and sustainable development, will achieve the right balance.

Every Member knows of instances in which economic opportunities were obstructed because someone opposed a development for obscure reasons. I am prepared to be generous and admit that some arguments concerning a development's potential for economic renewal were not sustainable. However, one could attribute much more than sense to many objections. I have heard of cases in which objections emanated from 50 or 60 miles away. One could argue that we are all entitled to consider the totality of our environment, but there is more than that involved. We must confront the perception that rural Ireland is only a single, large picnic area that people from urban Ireland can visit on Sundays and say is wonderful to visit without realising that the lives and livelihoods of others depend on those areas.

I welcome the greater legal protection for ministerial orders. In many cases, such orders in respect of one-off rural housing need not have been issued because they have been ignored, although not in all counties. That last reverts to the point on contradictions. While I do not want to use the privilege of the House and be unfair to any profession, people in some cases are determined to oppose the ministerial guidelines.

Tens of planning officers have come from abroad. While they are welcome and have received their respective countries' professional and academic qualifications, an awareness of traditional Irish planning and development values is required. Often, this awareness is not a part of their training. I am sure they have much to contribute, but it might be a good idea to bring county managers and planning officers together for a seminar or conference to discuss what the Government is trying to achieve through the Minister's guidelines. Sometimes, they are left too open to interpretation. If the local planning authority does not show goodwill and have a positive attitude towards such guidelines, they will usually be ignored.

The main question concerns the Bill's task of achieving economic renewal while ensuring sustainable development. I am not sure whether balancing the books is possible through legislation alone. If the Government makes its desire evident and dots the i's and crosses the t's where its ambition is concerned, finding a mechanism to achieve a balance would be worthwhile.

Looking for scapegoats in any issue is easy. While I do not intend to look for them, An Bord Pleanála has considerable power and a question mark could lie over the manner in which its board is appointed. People who have been a part of a debate, such as the Irish Rural Dwellers Association - I declare an interest, as I am a member of that body - should be represented on An Bord Pleanála. Such bodies represent the whole of the country in terms of rural planning and requirements, yet they are not represented on the board. Often, those on the board come from the professions. Therefore, the difficulties I have mentioned concerning local knowledge, requirements and traditions, all of which are important, are being perpetuated. That the board does not represent such people is a snub which has been noticed with a great degree of hurt. An Bord Pleanála should be examined in this respect.

I can understand the Bill's recommendation that the quorum for a meeting of the board be reduced from three members to two, given the amount of work involved and the requirement for speedy decisions, but it will sound alarm bells with people who have questions to ask of An Bord Pleanála. These questions do not relate to matters of integrity or fulfilling duties, but we must attend to these issues if we are to negate the types of controversy arising. To suggest that the required quorum for An Bord Pleanála can now be two instead of three means the Minister is putting the decision process into the hands of two people. I query that and ask that we get some explanation in that regard.

It is vital that we assist people who want to build their houses and live in rural Ireland. I have seen more cases than I have seen days in the week where the next generation of a family with their own farm could not get permission to build a house. I ask the Minister to consider two issues. First, we used to talk about rural Ireland dying and the empty homesteads but people now have a confidence in rural Ireland and they want to live in those areas. We need only consider the social aspect of it in terms of a young married couple with children living on the same land as their parents. The parents, who are the grandparents, can help look after the children and the young couple can look after their grandparents as they get older which means there is less need for hospitalisation and nursing home care. We are also helping the young couple who must go out to make a living, pay their mortgage etc. There are too many refusals of planning permission for reasons that are obscure and we must have the courage, wisdom and, above all else, justice to help those people. If the Bill has anything in it that will do that, it is most welcome legislation.