Rónán Mullen (Independent)

I very much regret the incident that took place with Senator Harris some moments ago. Whereas I am sometimes at the receiving end of your gavel, a Chathaoirligh, I believe you are entitled to have your response heard out.

There is no doubt that the one issue being discussed is that of the Ceann Comhairle's expenses. I would like a Seanad debate on the issue of our expenses as public representatives. I do not believe in hanging courts or media-led campaigns to punish people for not complying with standards that were not properly laid out in the past. I believe, however, in urgent and, if necessary, painful reform. It is clear to people that many in the political class have been profligate. It is fair to say we have scandalised the public. It is also fair to say that self-regulation is a thing of the past. It does not work. I do not believe in self-regulation of the media and we certainly cannot rely on bankers to engage in ethical conduct on their own without assistance for regulation. Civil servants do not appear to have been capable of reining in prolificacy. While I am convinced that the Oireachtas commission is made up of good and sincere people, the public will not have confidence in the deliberations of an organisation, membership of which itself attracts expenses.

We must face up to the fact that we need to seek the services of a trusted outside person. I am thinking of somebody above reproach such as Mr. Justice Peter Kelly, who is well regarded, or a member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants who would take a root-and-branch look at the expenses of public representatives in the Legislature and also ministerial expenses. The person must, however, be able to understand the political system and know there are expenses with which politicians must deal. The person in question must take a realistic look at them and come up with a set of recommendations which we will all accept as fair but also adequate. The bottom line is that we will have to get used to dealing with less. That fact alone will bring us closer to the people we represent.