Fiona O'Malley (Progressive Democrats)

To nobody's surprise, my instincts are the same as those of Senator Cannon in this area. Listening to the Minister of State's response, it screams of protectionism, which is not really what we want. I am worried about that. I have listened to the Minister of State's laudable aims and provisions within the legislation but he is asking us to forget the experience we have had. Nobody, and private bus operators in particular, can forget how Dublin Bus and other public companies have operated.

Senator Cannon touched on the issue of us not being allowed to see the figures and as an example we have had the traumatic experience of trying to make integrated ticketing a reality. Many Ministers responsible for transport have dealt with this, including the late Séamus Brennan, Deputy Martin Cullen and the current Minister, and yet we still do not have integrated ticketing because Dublin Bus will not provide figures or play ball. As the company has been allowed to dominate, the Ministers have been able to do very little.

This is worrying. I accept the reasoning behind the Minister of State's actions but the experience is different. Senator Cannon has raised a good point about figures. As there will be a level of protectionism and commercial operators will not be allowed on certain services if this element remains in the Bill, we will never really know the real commercial levels. That sort of protectionism must be left behind, and as I previously indicated, the Bill would be improved by deleting this provision.

We cannot lose sight of the public we are here to serve as we seek the best possible public transport service. All our experience has shown that the private and public sectors working as a competitive force provide the best service. We were promised a level playing field and we must keep that field as even as possible. This element flies in the face of that effort so I ask the Minister of State to consider it further.