Joe O'Toole (Independent)

The big issue being discussed today in the newspapers and everywhere else is that of expenses, although the focus is on the other House. It must be acknowledged that the level of trust and confidence in politicians is at an all-time low. We must also acknowledge that we all share, to some extent, in that failure. Whether people were individually part of the excesses, there is a view abroad that as a political class we have let down the people we represent. We must move forward from that position and make whatever changes are required. The matter of politicians' expenses must be taken from our own hands. Perhaps we should take advice from outside the House - the private sector - in looking at the nature of the job Members do and outlining how expenses should be claimed. It would not save the State money but it is the approach we must take for the sake of transparency. It would require much work but it must be done. It should be recognised that it is very hard to compare the job done where somebody living on the west coast must be in Dublin three or four days a week and also travel around a constituency with any job in the private sector. Nevertheless, the approaches adopted in the private sector could be used in measuring and quantifying the work done and bringing forward a system in which the people could have trust and confidence. We should begin such a process but I despair about whether we will do so.

As Senator Fitzgerald correctly stated, the FÁS legislation which has emerged today is appalling. The social partners have been taken out. As I have a vested interest in it, I will say nothing about that matter. What is being put in its place is a system in which the Minister will look into his or her own heart, lift the telephone to speak to two other Ministers and, without consultation with anybody else, decide who will sit on the board. That is a step backwards. We are already in a position where at least half of the members of the broadcasting authority will come through a joint committee of the Houses. It is an appalling and unacceptably regressive measure that the new FÁS board will be put together without the involvement of anybody outside the Cabinet. I ask the Leader to recognise that an amendment will have to be made to the Bill to at least bring the decision before a joint committee of the Houses when Members would be able to show their expertise and knowledge in these areas and give trust and confidence to the people. This is a classic example where governance begins with legislation. We must insist on it happening in such a way.

In responding to the big issue of the day, from here on we must work like this every day. We must put up our hands and say what we have been doing so far is unacceptable to the people and that the excesses about which we have read are not acceptable. In looking to the future we must change the system.