Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)

It is true that we were asked to include it in the Bill but we did not do so because it is completely different to try to prove that someone is a member of a terrorist or paramilitary organisation than to prove that someone is a member of a criminal gang; it is far more difficult to prove that somebody is a member of a criminal gang. That is why as an alternative to opinion evidence the Attorney General advised that to set the scene and prove the existence of a criminal gang it was necessary for a garda to give evidence that a criminal gang existed in a particular geographic area, but that garda would not indicate a view or opinion as to the guilt or otherwise of the accused. The garda would not state that an accused was a member of that gang; that would require other proofs.

Fine Gael tabled an amendment in the Dáil and have tabled one here to state that the garda giving this evidence should be a chief superintendent. A chief superintendent could sit in an office and would not have any direct knowledge of the existence of a gang. Any lawyer worth his or her salt would be able to drive a coach and four through that evidence on cross-examination because of the lack of personal knowledge. The Garda was strongly of the view that we should leave the rank as any rank. I have been given an assurance that normally it will be a detective inspector who will give evidence on the existence of a gang. People should not confuse this and criticise the Bill for what is not in it. There has been a large element of that and whether it is that people have not read the Bill, put pen to paper, gone on the public airways without reading it or are endeavouring to throw some confusion into the system, I strongly urge people to hone in on what we are trying to do here. I believe we all have the same goal, that is, to rid this country of the significant threat from criminal gangs. The killing of Roy Collins was the tipping point in that it is clear there are people who are prepared to intimidate and the more we can do to obviate the necessity for civilian involvement in gangland crime trials before the criminal justice system, the better.

Ultimately, it is the Director of Public Prosecutions who makes these decisions but the Oireachtas is sending out a strong signal that only these particular offences should be triable in the Special Criminal Court where there are no juries unless the DPP orders otherwise. That is the correct way because it is sending a strong message to Irish society and to the criminal gangs who know they will not be able to intimidate jurors. That, combined with the surveillance legislation the President signed today, will obviate the necessity for civilian witnesses in gangland crime trials. I am not saying we will not require witnesses in the Special Criminal Court. We will but as much as we can, while maintaining the right to a fair trial and adhering to people's human rights, it is important that we reduce as much as possible the civilian element of gangland crime trials because that has been acknowledged by the Supreme Court, the High Court and the Hederman committee, which examined the issue of the continuation of the Special Criminal Court. It is not just for paramilitary crime. It is also for organised crime because it is to the advantage of those people that they thwart the trials that are taking place to ensure they continue operating as they have done.

I would welcome the comments of Senators. We have accepted amendments in the Dáil. We accepted a Fine Gael amendment as part of the submission from the Irish Human Rights Commission. We accepted a substantial amendment, which is now part of the Bill before us, on the issue of inferences. We accepted what they were saying regarding the wide nature of the original proposal. The Bill has been amended fairly substantially by Government amendments, by the Fine Gael amendment and by the Human Rights Commission's suggested amendments also. I commend the Bill to the House.