Joe O'Toole (Independent)

On Seanad business, perhaps the Leader might raise this issue with the Government Chief Whip. Half our business today and much of it throughout the week has been the recommital on Report Stage of Seanad Bills that have been changed by the Dáil. There is nothing wrong with that, but on many occasions the changes made in the Dáil relate to an issue that has already been raised in the Seanad, where a Minister will have acknowledged it needs to be dealt with, agreed to reflect on it and then changed it in the Dáil instead of on Report Stage in the Seanad. This means we are duplicating the business unnecessarily and I ask the Leader to look at this.

Departments should be told that if an issue is raised on Committee Stage, the structure is to deal with that on Report Stage, not to say it will be dealt with in the other House and brought back to the Seanad again, where the entire procedure has to be replicated.

An unseemly row has broken out between the head of the HSE and the Archbishop of Dublin on Crumlin hospital. We often hear that doctors differ and patients die, but this is akin to the third secret of Fatima as regards who is telling the truth in relation to what is going on in Crumlin. I am completely confused by it. Parents with children in that hospital do not know the explanation. Professor Drumm is telling us that there is no need for surgery theatres to be cut back, while at the same time Archbishop Martin, who is chairman of the Crumlin hospital board, is saying this is the only choice. Another member of the board says the board has nothing to with such matters which are executive decisions. We need to know the truth of the matter and we also need to be informed concerning certain governance issues there. If State money is being given to a hospital, there is no point in the HSE whinging afterwards as regards how the money has been spent. It should know beforehand how it is going to be spent. The business or work plan for the year should be approved before money is handed over. This row would not arise if proper governance structures were in place. From a political viewpoint we are dealing with a situation where the Department has handed over discretion for spending money to the HSE, the HSE has passed that discretion to the hospital board and taxpayers and politicians do not know how or why the money is being spent. We need concrete knowledge and information about this. It is fine that hospitals are autonomous and how they spend their money is their decision, but where taxpayers' money is involved we need to know it is approved by our system. There is a breakdown in communications and the approval system and it is an unacceptable way of doing business.