John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)

If I am mistaken in those dates, I know that Members went into debt to serve in these Houses. It should never be the case, and it was never intended to be the case, that only the wealthy could afford to be in public life. When one considers that the average term in these Houses is now approximately 11 or 12 years, and that is not a long life cycle, it surprises me that members of the media, who often do not look for balance, wonder why Members hold on to jobs while they are Members of the Houses. Of course they will hold onto jobs because the average term is 11 or 12 years and they have to consider themselves and their futures.

There are many interesting parts to this Bill. I ask the mandarins from the Department of Finance - it is not a derogatory term but gives great credit to their abilities - to examine one part of it as it is something I do not understand. The section concerned provides that between the passing of this Bill and the next general election pensions being paid to sitting Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas will be reduced by 25%, which is straightforward enough. The provision is given effect by reducing the pension by 62.5%, rather than 50%. I may have missed something very significant, but if one wished to reduce somebody's pension by 25%, one would cut it by 25% and not by 62.5% or 50%. I may be reading the provision incorrectly, but if one wished to reduce a pension by 25% that is what one would do.

There are very positive and necessary aspects to this Bill. I ask that we continue to ensure there is fairness. All of us will accept the cuts that are necessary. I commend those in this House who have been in a position to take extra cuts and have done so voluntarily. I suggest we ensure at all times that nobody feels he or she was singled out compared to the person next to him or her. It is very difficult to do, but it is something the last supplementary budget achieved in full and I would like the Government to continue to examine that area.

The terms and conditions should reflect the times we are in. We are in more difficult times. Things will improve once we ensure our competitiveness and banking structures are correct, which is essential not to insure bankers but, rather, the economy, which depends on the banks. We must also ensure there is liquidity in the economy and get people back to work. We are facing difficult and challenging times, but the reality is that we have to take a lead. I am certain this Bill is a major step forward in taking a lead to show people that we are serious about what we intend to do and that we will lead by example.