Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)

I am in a difficult situation on this side of the House. As a young lad, my father often told me that "those who are bound must obey, and those who aren't, can run away". I am probably under the cosh of the Whip, unless the Minister of State has a change of heart. If he has such a change of heart, I will not oppose it.

Credit must be given to Senator Regan for the very fine detailed amendment he tabled, and there is much merit to it. I also think the learned District Court judge was wrong in making that decision in the case in question. Most other District Court judges I know would not have made that decision, ach sin scéal eile. We are where we are, and the High Court has made its decision. When I spoke this morning about the decision being appealed to the Supreme Court, it was not on the basis that I felt the decision was wrong, but because I thought we could get to the end of the constitutional road on the issue involved.

I would love to see a situation arise so that committal for non-payment of debts could be abolished, and I have 15 years of experience advocating in front of District Court judges on this. Senator Cannon spoke about banks and those institutions that were hoisting money on us a few years ago. The wheel has turned. I remember when I did my law degree, my father had died and there was not much money at home, so I went to the bank with my mother for £100 to come to Dublin and do some more exams. The bank manager said he would give me the money, but he wanted the deeds of the farm in exchange. It was a small, mountainous farm, but it was only £100 and how things have changed since 1975. Only two years ago, money was being thrown at people who were scarcely 19. I have no sympathy for the banks in that respect, but I do have sympathy in extreme cases.

I came across a situation where a woman with five children was forced to leave her family home. She left due to fear and intimidation, and she was thwarted by her ex-husband every which way. She was not entitled to a council house because she was technically the joint owner of a property. She was unable to get maintenance because he gave up his day job and decided to do something where he was earning cash which could not be proved. There are people who would exploit things if the threat of a prison sentence, as a very last resort, was not hanging over them. I am not saying Senator Regan's amendment does not suggest that either.

I would like to see a good debate in this House on various issues. It is probably wrong to rush this legislation through in the way that it has been ordered, although I was not here for the Order of Business. When the initial judgment has been granted in the District Court to a creditor, that judgment is still valid whether we pass this Bill this week or next week, or even next September. The judgment will not lapse because the Statute of Limitations does not run against judgments. This Bill could have been dealt with better if there was a more prolonged debate on it. I know the sincerity of the Senators. I may be voting against them in a minute, but I understand where they are coming from. There are valid points being made, but there is not enough time for the Minister of State or his officials to take them on board and put clear water between Second Stage and Committee Stage. It would have been better if we had that time, but we are where we are and unfortunately I find myself somewhat bound.