Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)

Ba mhaith liom an Aire Stáit a fháiltiú go dtí an Teach chun an Bille tábhachtach seo a phlé. Senator Harris made a very interesting contribution to the debate on Second Stage. If we return to first base on the law, there is far too much emphasis on technicalities and legalities and not enough on ensuring effective investigation and prosecution within the system. We have seen, and still see, serious criminals, who are well known to the Garda and are involved in the most heinous of crimes, walking our streets. It is only when they are killed or murdered that their names and the kinds of activities they are involved in come to our attention.

It begs a very serious question of society, that is, what is wrong with our system which allows people who have a total disregard for the law, human life and the rest of society to be able to indulge in criminal activities, almost with impunity? Mention has been made in the House today, and on many occasions, of the activities in Limerick and, in particular, the callous murders of good citizens who stood in the way of criminals and were trying to protect others, such as Brian Fitzgerald and Roy Collins, who was playing his part in our judicial system.

It is a challenge to all of us to work to ensure that the legislative framework and the calibre and effectiveness of the investigative arm, namely, the Garda, and our legal and judicial system, operate to ensure people who are outside the law are held to account for their serious criminal activities. It is interesting that in the press release by the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, on this Bill he stated: "Covert recordings will help to nail crime gang bosses and therefore we must advance this new law as quickly as possible." He emphasised that the work of the agencies which are covered in this Bill is directed specifically at serious gangland crime. He mentioned offences such as witness intimidation, assaults, murder and extortion, while other offences connected with money laundering, drugs and firearms importation activities may also be involved. He said such activity is a deliberate attack on the foundations of our criminal justice system and society at large by ruthless gangs who are willing to murder. Nobody in this House would disagree with any of that. The challenge for us, in many instances, is to balance the right of the citizen under our Constitution and various human rights provisions on privacy, while ensuring the well-being of society is fully protected. Sometimes that is a fine balance.

I welcome the provisions of the Bill, with one small misgiving which I will come to later. I welcome the fact that the interests of the three main authorities involved, the Garda, the Defence Forces and the Revenue Commissioners, coincide in the Bill. I note with interest that no new powers are given to any of the agencies to provide increased covert surveillance. The powers are already in place for the agencies involved.

The purpose of the Bill is to prevent and detect serious crime and safeguard the security of the State against subversive and terrorist attacks. It allows the information and evidence accumulated as a consequence of surveillance to be used in the prosecution of criminals. It removes any legal objections based on the exclusionary rule. It specifies the types of crimes for which the Bill is applicable. It allows for a regulatory framework for the use of surveillance, but deals specifically with offences which carry a penalty of five years imprisonment. The Bill defines arrestable offences with reference to the two previous Acts, which are in the definitions. An arrestable offence is defined as an offence for which a person of full capacity and not previously convicted may, under or by virtue of any enactment or the common law, be punished by imprisonment for a term of five years or by a more severe penalty and includes an attempt to commit any such offence.

That point brings me to my misgiving, which was well illustrated by Senator Bacik when she made an analogy with search warrants and noted that search warrants do not apply to all arrestable offences. There are certain restrictions on them. If we examine this point, there is a clear comparison between getting a search warrant to enable the authorities to gather evidence and using surveillance to achieve the same result. I am a little concerned. I wonder why we did not restrict the measure to very serious crimes, such as organised gangland crime, which is a real threat to the State and society, rather than extending it further than search warrants. I am interested to hear the Minister of State's view on why there should be a disparity.

I welcome the fact that surveillance is subject to judicial application, except in exceptional circumstances, and that there is a requirement in the Bill that the provisions be compliant with the Constitution and the European Convention on Human Rights. That will protect the personal rights of the citizen. I do not have any great concerns about the operation of the framework and do not necessarily disagree the 72-hour period is desirable. However, it is important oversight of it is effective and I welcome the fact it will go before a High Court judge who will report to the Taoiseach and that the report will be laid before the Houses. That is appropriate and I disagree with Senator Regan's comments in that regard.