Ivor Callely (Fianna Fail)

We had an interesting exchange concerning this matter on Second Stage. It is a relatively significant aspect of the legislation. Private nursing home operators would be very satisfied indeed if they were to receive exactly the same payment as public hospitals or nursing homes for the same bed given the same level of dependency. If that were the case, there would not be an issue in this respect. I have read some of these reports, although I am not too sure whether everyone in the House is familiar with them. A set of accounts published by a public hospital compared with one published by a private operator would be like chalk and cheese owing to the different level of service. During the debate on Second Stage, I mentioned one particular service provider - St. Mary's Hospital in the Phoenix Park - for which I have the height of admiration and appreciation given the level of services it provides and the improvements it has carried out. However, that hospital provides more than beds, a fact that is reflected in its financial statements. Equally, there is usually more than just a bed being provided by the public sector. Private operators are also encouraged to provide more than beds and many of them do so.

We now get down to the difficult aspect of people being asked to provide their accounts. I have strong reservations about private operators being asked to provide accounts. Are they accounts they submit to the tax man or are they ones required under stipulated headings for the National Treatment Purchase Fund? If so, will such accounts suffice? If we are asking the public authorities to supply their accounts - the published, audited accounts we receive from the HSE - the difference is like chalk and cheese.

Up to now the public bed operators were cushioned by certain benefits, including the fact that private operators had to adhere to an inspection system which public nursing homes could avoid. I must say that if the same inspection regime had applied to public nursing homes as applied to private operators, they would have been closed.