Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)

I had intended teacht isteach i dtosach báire agus éisteacht leis na Seanadóirí agus ansin, nuair a bheadh an méad a bhí le rá ráite acu, bhí sé i gceist agam míniú a thabhairt. Ach ó tharla gur iarradh orm labhairt i dtosach, labhróidh mé i dtosach agus míneoidh mé an scéal.

Several years ago when the changes to the drink driving laws were introduced, there was serious concern about the provision of night-time transport in rural Ireland, especially in areas which did not have a service. At the time, the rural transport initiative did not cover those areas and there was no provision within the scheme for night-time transport. As a result, I decided to set up a pilot scheme for night-time transport which was piloted over seven years. It always amazes me that when one sets up a pilot scheme, and everyone knows it is a temporary pilot scheme, the minute one goes to mainstream it, everybody cries foul and claims one is withdrawing something. My understanding of a pilot scheme is that one tries something, works out how one will go forward and decides what the permanent long-term arrangements should be. Those arrangements should not be confined to a small number of areas.

When we set up the pilot scheme, we said we would fund it out of the rural development fund. The rural development fund was set up specifically for pilot actions of short duration and for research.

The scheme has operated well and has thrown up some very interesting results. For example, the cost per passenger ranges from €1.50 to €12. The first question one would have to ask is why is there such a huge imbalance. My other concern was that the initial case arose from people claiming they could not socialise and get home at night. In other words, the scheme should not be confined to pensioners but include, as it would on a city bus service, wage-earning young people faced with the same physical problem of getting home at night when there is no public transport in their area. It is amazing that when a service is provided in rural areas, some believe it is needed only by the old. I often ask those with this mind set if they have ever considered how hilarious it would be considered to extend such a condition to Dublin, demanding a means test for all those getting on a city bus or that only free travel pass holders could use bus services.

Many rural services are focused exclusively at the needs of the older age group. In any future consideration of rural transport schemes they should also be focused at the cohort who may want to socialise at night, irrespective of age or employment status. It should not just be about providing transport for those without a car. It should be about facilitating everyone, who in the past under more liberal laws could go to their local hostelry, have a few drinks and drive home, in leaving their cars at home and getting home safely later.

The seven pilot groups did their job well, each taking a different approach with good results. The review found it was a good and necessary scheme. It highlighted that if the scheme were to be run on a mainstream basis, then the free travel pass should be accounted for by the Department of Social and Family Affairs. The review also found other areas which had successful schemes should have them extended if it were established on a full-time basis.

It must be kept in mind that the night-time scheme cost €500,000 a year. When it was established several years ago, total funding for the rural transport initiative, through the rural transport fund from the Department of Transport, was €5 million. This year it will be €9 million. The rural transport initiative is now better funded than it was four years ago. The Department of Transport has made it clear to the companies providing rural transport that evening services, if they are priority, are allowed out of that €9 million funding. Several rural transport initiatives are already providing separate night-time services under a new dispensation from the Department of Transport. Areas not part of the original pilot project have seen the benefit of the scheme and have changed their rules to accommodate night-time services. The claim that services will not be provided at night is nonsense.

Six of the seven groups attended a meeting — I admit short notice was given for it and I regret one group could not attend — with me and Pobal recently in which there was a long discussion on how the scheme may continue. It was felt the rational way would be through the general rural transport initiative. Pobal will be in contact with all the different groups individually. It will then meet them together to facilitate them in this year's rural transport initiative and to prioritise which night-time services the groups believe should continue. With funding always finite, people will have to make choices.

When the night-time transport initiative was introduced, I put a limit on administration for the scheme coming to 10% of overall funding. Pobal, however, has informed me the general rural transport initiative has overhead costs of between 25% and 40%. Taking an average of 30% would mean €2,700,000 is going on overheads. Being blunt about it, those extra moneys from my Department could be more than clawed back by examining the need for such large overheads and more efficient ways of administering the scheme. For example, my Department runs 20 island ferry services with overheads amounting to only 1% or 2% of the overall budget. My Department must go into detailed analysis of every service we provide, by entering into reasonably long contracts, using efficient systems of tendering and so on. Priority services in the night-time scheme needed by communities will continue.

The rural transport initiative is due for re-organisation next year. The whole question of rural transport will have to be examined then. As the Minister responsible for rural development, I cannot go along with the idea that everything is being done the right or efficient way. The best way of providing good rural services is to have a mix of them. In the case of the night-time rural transport service, it should not only attract those with a free travel pass but those who could pay for it. The whole success of the island ferry services, for example, is that paying customers carry them considerably so that the subsidies imposed on the islanders are modest. If the services were designed not to have paying customers, the subsidy charge would be so great for the islanders that it would make it unsustainable. Unfortunately, when it comes to rural night-time transport services there is a fixation that only one group needs them and they should not be designed for other users. Applying that logic to the provision of urban transport services would mean not one bus in Dublin would be left because all the paying customers would be taken away. The whole basis of public transport would be undermined if one does not attract as a wide a group of users as possible, irrespective of income.

The pilot exercise was good and achieved its objective. The rules of the rural transport initiative have been changed. Within the initiative, there are enough funds to maintain those night-time services in the seven areas that have high demand and patronage. Due to the success of the pilot scheme, the Department of Transport changed the rules to accommodate other areas to begin their own night-time services.

However, while it was fine to have the pilot scheme in one Department, it would be irrational to have two Departments involved in the rural transport initiative. While it was justifiable to conduct the pilot scheme, as a long-term arrangement it always was intended to integrate this scheme under the remit of a single Department to cut down on overheads and have a co-ordinated approach and so that those who provide rural transport services can choose between day and night-time services, according to the needs in their own localities.

Ba mhaith liom buíochas a glacadh leis an Chathaoirleach as ucht an deis a thabhairt dom cúpla focal a rá ar dtús. Tá súil agam go mbeidh díospóireacht bhríomhar faoin gcéist seo agus ag an deireadh, déanfaidh me iarracht aon cheist a bheidh ann a fhreagairt.