Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)

Section 41 provides that arrangements are made to publish the cost of approved nursing homes with no corresponding provision in respect of public nursing homes, which is an interesting point. What is the cost of public nursing homes and how do they compare? I ask the Minister of State to consider, in the interests of transparency, publication of the cost of public provision.

Section 41(b)(iii) which was introduced by the Minister on Committee Stage is at variance with the statements made by the Department of Health and Children in its publication, A Fairer Deal, the Nursing Home Care Support Scheme 2008, which states: "Prices around the country are already known to the HSE and the Department and can be reasonably estimated already." It further states:

We are already aware of prices around the country and will not be obliged to reach agreement with any particular provider or nursing home if its prices or unreasonable. We will seek co-operation from the private nursing home organisation.

Perhaps the Minister of State will come back to us on Report Stage in regard to whether she thinks it appropriate for the NTPF, as a monopoly purchaser, to request information that is not in the public domain, specifically, commercially sensitive information in a competitive environment, an issue which Nursing Homes Ireland asked us to raise with the Minister of State. I am sure they raised the matter directly with the Minister of State. I am interested to hear the Minister of State's view on the matter. I accept the question of commercial sensitivity arises. Without an arbitration process providers are put in a difficult situation. The NTPF also has the power to examine the records and accounts of such nursing homes and to subsequently report the finding of such examinations to the Minister and the nursing home in question. While I want to see transparency, I want to see it in the public as well as the private sector. I believe costs in respect of both should be published. We should be looking at the cost of public provision. In other words, how much is a bed in a public nursing home as compared with a bed in a private nursing home. This information would raise many interesting questions in terms of efficiencies and the provision of service.

If there is no access to arbitration, which is the point of this amendment, it would be heavy-handed to allow this in the absence of a corresponding provision in respect of publicly provided services.