Michael McCarthy (Labour)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, and the debate on the Bill. As Senator Cannon quite rightly said, in the spirit of transparency and accountability it is good that the House is putting on the record the very important matter put before us in this legislative proposal giving effect to European decisions made in December 2005.

I did not get a chance on the Order of Business to put on the record my profound, warm and sincere congratulations to my former colleague on this side of the House, Alan Kelly, who is now a Member of the European Parliament. I pay tribute to all Members of this House who contested the European elections. It was rumoured the Leas-Chathaoirleach would run in Munster, such is his standing in the constituency, but perhaps he will run next time. It is an outstanding achievement for the Labour Party, not just in north Tipperary but throughout Munster. I join my colleagues in wishing Alan the very best for his tenure in Brussels and wish his wife, Regina, and his family, who are quite rightly very proud of achievements, the best in the future.

Former Senator Kelly has brought to my attention a matter regarding taxation. I would appreciate if the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, could clarify an issue. I understand there is a taxation issues regarding salaries and a likelihood that Members of the European Parliament would be subject to a 15% tax in Brussels on their salaries and would also be subject to the appropriate rates of taxation here. If that is the situation, I would appreciate if the Minister of State could clarify that issue and outline the thinking behind it or the clarification because, all things being fair and equal, it is something that may not be allowed to happen.

Senator Cannon made a very important point. In terms of equality of membership and the Members of the European Parliament, the salary of Hungarian MEPs is quite paltry compared to that of Italians and others. It is right and proper that salaries are being put on a level playing pitch and we are doing our bit to ensure we are moving forward.

I wish to make a number of points. I welcome the discussion on the European Union and hopefully between now and the next European referendum we will get a chance to discuss it at much greater length. The Minister of State was a Member of this House during its last term when there were discussions between the various MEPs, from all hues and none, who came into the House and put forward their points of view. That was a very successful outing and I suggest we do it again because it connects this House with the European Parliament and gives us an insight into the thinking of our MEPs.

In terms of European elections we are all fighting one corner or the other and we put forward the unique policies of our own parties. However, when our MEPs are in Brussels they all don the green jersey, do the best they can for us at that level and sing from the same hymn sheet. I suggest MEPs come back to the House between now and the next European treaty so we can have discussions and debates on the implementation of the next treaty.

The issue of salaries and expenses is important. We have seen from events in the United Kingdom that there is cynicism about politics, which is being fuelled by certain elements of the media. One can understand that, given what has happened in the UK, but it will seep into other parts of the European Union. It is very important we state how we do our business and what is debated in the House, and are quite clear about how we want salaries and expenses put in a public forum and not just debated here. Such information should be available for public consumption so people are aware of what goes on here and the manner in which we have sought to give legislative effect to European directives.

Europe is an very important part of our lives. We are part of Europe as much as Europe is part of us. We are at a critical juncture in this country. We will need the support of the European Union in terms of a course forward given the economic difficulty in which this country finds itself and the challenges that now exist. We need to be part of the European Union to meet those challenges. This is an important step in terms ensuring co-operation between Ireland and Europe.

Whatever side one takes in terms of the Lisbon treaty it is always important to ensure one has accurate and fact-based information. I supported ratification of the Lisbon treaty on the previous occasion. It was quite clear to anyone who had any form of contact with the public at that time that it was not going to succeed and that it was destined to fail. While I do not wish to point fingers, there was a certain amount of taking for granted on the part of a number of political parties on what I would deem to be the right side of the campaign. I wish the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Martin, well in the negotiations with his European counterparts. We must ensure that if and when we put the same treaty before the people we spell out clearly what the treaty is about and we are clear in terms of the guarantees. Any guarantees the Minister can extract from the current negotiations must be watertight and above board. Media commentary in recent days has suggested there is a question mark over the legality of these guarantees. We must be sure that whatever is agreed in the negotiations this week can be put to the people as being precise without fear of contradiction.

The National Forum on Europe, a Labour Party proposal introduced by the previous Government, was an effective forum in terms of the bringing together of all views. Former Senator Maurice Hayes was an important driver of the forum which I regret is no longer in existence. It was an important forum for us in terms of Europe. That it no longer exists is not good.

I would be grateful if the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, could provide Members with clarification in respect of the taxation issues. I look forward to hearing his reply.