Liam Twomey (Fine Gael)

Senator O'Toole praised the Government for introducing this legislation but he should be wary of Fianna Fáil bringing in legislation such as this, which may have been drawn up two years ago and based on a time when property was worth more, people had more assets such as shares and the criteria used here would have excluded most elderly people from being eligible for assessment. The sum of €36,000 and one's home keeps one within this system. If one has more than that, one is excluded. Elderly people with significant amounts of shares and businesses would have been excluded from the financial point of view. Now that the Government has wrecked the economy, those shares and properties are no longer worth the same and a far greater number of people will become eligible for this scheme.

We must be concerned at the assessment of health needs carried out by the Government. The NEPS decides if one is eligible for education services and we see major delays of up to nine months, with obstacles placed before parents who seek these services. This will happen in this case as well. We saw this happen in the good times. Disability grants and care packages for elderly people were restricted to an unbelievable degree over the past few years. This is a Progressive Democrats way of thinking that still infects Fianna Fáil. Patients will not get access to these services, no matter how good this reads in principle, based on the history of this Government, which has restricted services to an unbelievable degree. If they were not available in the good times, the Government certainly will not make them available in the bad times. I would like the Minister of State to tell us when the legislation will come into force once it is passed. What will happen to the two public nursing homes that provide services to people in Wexford, St. John's in Enniscorthy and the New Haughton hospital in New Ross? They provide excellent services but it may cost up to €1,700 per week to care for a patient there. Private nursing homes that do not need to provide the same level of services charge between €800 and €1,100. Will the National Treatment Purchase Fund, which is the Minister's responsibility, reduce the quality of care provided at St. John's in Enniscorthy and the New Haughton hospital to reduce the cost per bed? These are the questions that must be answered. Will these facilities be closed? The Minister of State must make clear whether that will be the end result of the legislation. If public beds could not be provided in the good times and this problem developed while the Celtic tiger was roaring for the past ten years, how can we trust the Government to get this right in more difficult times?

What will the Minister of State do with the public nursing facilities where I send my patients in County Wexford? Will they be forced to cut the number of nursing and care attendant staff or will the remuneration of private nursing homes be improved so that the facilities provided will improve? These are the real questions Senator O'Toole, who supports this legislation, should be asking.

I am worried about the assessment because I can see it being used to make those with dementia, Alzheimer's disease and strokes the only ones eligible for services. I see people with leg ulcers, heart failure and significant breathing problems being given all sorts of cobbled together home care packages to keep them in their homes. This is not because the Government wants to keep elderly people at home but because it is cheaper.

The Minister of State referred to the majority of elderly people wanting to remain in their homes rather than going into nursing homes. If the majority of people prefer this, why is this legislation not rights-based? Why does it hark back to what the Progressive Democrats used to do with human rights? They used to put a cost on it, as the Minister of State is doing. If she says it is resource dependent, she must know how much she can put into this service for the next three years the minute the legislation is signed. If the Department has carried out a financial needs assessment on how much will be spent in the coming years, how much is the multi-annual budget? How many patients can be cared for using that budget? If the National Treatment Purchase Fund has completed its assessment to this degree, it should be able to tell how many patients it will look after and the Minister of State should be able to tell us. From that, the organisations representing elderly people and the Opposition may be able to work out the commitment of the Minister of State to elderly people. There is a major restriction on services for elderly people in the community at present. Home help and care packages are restricted and there are not enough public health nurses. At the same time, it is almost impossible to get people into public nursing homes.

The Minister of State has the figures and understands the problems. I would like her to indicate how many beds she envisages in the coming years. Anything else is only a sham, the same as when the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, announced the home care packages that would sort out problems for elderly people in the community. A recent report stated that it is almost impossible to work out whether one is entitled to a home care package. Even if one is entitled to it, it is impossible to get the full range of services promised. If the home care packages cannot be provided, how can this be right?

This is legislation and it must be better defined. This is not like one of Senator Mary White's policies announced today. Legislation must be accurate, not full of high, noble ideas and fancy words. It must be cut and dried, explaining what the people of Ireland are entitled to. Every one of us respects the dignity of older people and would love to see older people remain in their homes. If that is not available to them, I want to know how far the Government will go in looking after those people. The record of the Government up to this point has been measly. This type of legislation, which deals with the protection of people in the last years of their lives at a time when they are most vulnerable, should be rights-based.

If we look across the European Union or even the UK and Northern Ireland, they are able to provide far greater services on a rights basis than this Government is able to in this country. The Government was not even able to provide these services in the good times and I have my doubts whether it has the commitment or will to provide such services in these difficult times. The comparison can be made with other European countries and one can see the deficits. That is the reason this legislation should have been rights-based. It would have given confidence to families and elderly people that the Government means what it says in putting this type of legislation through the House. I do not see that currently.

I will look for the Minister of State to return to this House at a later stage to answer a few simple questions. When will the legislation come into force, has the needs assessment been done and may we have access to those figures with regard to the financial impact? What could happen to St. John's Hospital in Enniscorthy, New Haughton in New Ross, the Ely Hospital in Wexford town or the district hospital in Gorey when this legislation is introduced? They provide a significant range of services and would not be able to compete on the cost basis that the National Treatment Purchase Fund will use.