Feargal Quinn (Independent)

I did not intend to interrupt the flow of Senator Daly, who was addressing some interesting topics. I am delighted the Minister of State is present for this debate. I am interested in much of what he has had to say. I came up with some figures when I did my research for this debate, but I do not intend to use them after seeing what happened to Senator Bradford. It is obvious the Minister of State has more up-to-date figures than Members. I was impressed to hear the Minister of State mention there were 1.9 billion people in the world 100 years ago, but that figure has now increased to 6.5 billion and is expected to increase to 8 billion by 2025. It was interesting to hear Senator Bradford talk about the need to be able to produce more food. We have to produce more food to feed the additional people on this planet. That cannot be done by organic means alone. It is clear we will have to strike a balance somewhere along the line. We have to make sure there is a market for organic produce and for other produce. I am of the opinion that genetically modified foods should be given far more attention here in Ireland. I am not sure that we are doing so. I would love to see the balance of views taken into account.

I was in London last night to hear a speech by Andy Bond, the chief executive of Asda. What he said about the different trends was interesting and received a fair bit of publicity over the weekend and will now again. He said that the market for organics which were identified as a thing of the future has stumbled this year because people have less money and are trying to feed their families in straitened conditions. They are watching what they spend and organics are expensive.

People howl why are organics so expensive. It is because unnatural fertilisers are not used so they will always be more expensive than other products. I have tried to grow vegetables without using fertilisers and have found a huge difference between using them and not using them. I can understand a farmer being tempted to look for methods and manners to help growth. We must not close our eyes to genetically modified products.

There will, however, always be a market for organics. Some people are fussy about what they and their children eat but the market is confused. I spent a great deal of time in my business listening to my customers to find out what they wanted but for many years I made the mistake of not listening to those who are not my customers who say why they do not shop for a certain product or in a certain store. It is important to listen to them as well. The voice of those who favour organics must be balanced by that of those who choose other options.

It was interesting to hear Peter Dargan, a veterinarian and former chairman of the Irish Consumers Association, who was opposed to organics for health reasons. He said he would prefer to eat vegetables grown with artificial fertiliser than those produced with manure from cattle to protect his health. There are customers who behave well, watching their health from Monday to Friday, and at the weekend decide to misbehave and buy junk food. The market is very confused and the danger is that we do not recognise what can happen.

Between 2006 and 2008 sales of organic food in Ireland rose by 82%. I am not sure whether the Minister of State had that figure. I saw his figure that the market is worth €120 million this year. I was interested in his point that a considerable amount of that is imported whereas in Britain a high proportion is locally grown. As the recession has set in, the return to buying cheaper food has accelerated. That was instanced in the speech I heard last night. Some argue that market growth in the organic sector is expected to continue but at a slower rate. That is speculation. Figures available for other countries show that there has been a massive slowdown. In the UK a year ago almost half of middle class shoppers bought organic foods but that share has slumped to a third this year, according to the Institute of Grocery Distribution in Britain, of which I am a fellow. We now see how low cost retailers have made massive gains in Ireland, especially in the past year. People are becoming more careful and some are perhaps wary of organic products which they associate with high costs. It seems that more than half of consumers believe that organics are expensive and price is the main reason given for not buying them.

The Irish Times recently mentioned Flahavans in Waterford, which entered the organic market in 2005, and quoted John Flahavan as saying that organic products now account for 15% of their business. His main problem was to source native Irish organic oats for what is the last oat milling plant in Ireland. He said that in 2007 he could get only one week's supply from Ireland, one month's supply for the 2008 season and for this year's processing he was unable to access two to three months' supply. He said he told the farmers he paid €142 per tonne for conventional oats last year but his organic suppliers receive €400 per tonne. There is an opportunity here.

I am delighted we are having this debate and to hear the Minister of State's considered enthusiasm for these products which I do not want to dampen. There is a market there. We can achieve far more than we are doing and it is great that the Minister of State is pursuing that objective but let us get the balance right as well.