David Norris (Independent)

I am a welcoming person and I welcome the changing of the guard, noting that there is a different Minister of State in the Chamber. I welcome the support of my colleague, Professor Ivana Bacik, with whom I will share time.

This is a serious situation, particularly with regard to violent organised crime involving firearms. I am now boasting of my age, almost 65 years. When I was younger there was no such thing as organised crime in this country. Gun crime was virtually unknown and comparatively small crimes were headline news. We went to the cinema to see the mob in Chicago but it did not appear to exist in our community. There was less violence.

I am not sure how it happened. Partly, it is our culture. There may not have been a mob but there was a culture of violence. It was embedded in the songs sung, glorifying violence, murder and explosion. That was part of our background. The IRA softened people up to the idea of violence through its campaigns, particularly in recent years. I listened to a reporter in Limerick on RTE, who interviewed a man who was limping because he had been shot. The precise method by which he was shot, through the back of the knee, was used by both sides in the north of Ireland. There is political currency there. I remember warning that if we did not manage the transition from violent events to a more democratic situation, we ran the risk of creating a mob situation, which we now have. There is a direct relationship.

The recent cases in Limerick are extraordinarily worrying. The catalyst for this appalling violence appears so trivial. The refusal to admit a young girl to a pub because she was under age and not in a position to produce evidence of her age was treated by the criminal fraternity as a capital offence for which someone was sentenced to death. That is absurd and a previous case was similarly trivial but people were hired to murder on the basis of this tiny provocation that escalated like a 16th century Italian vendetta.

The ages of some of the murderers and gun toters are 14, 15 or younger. Where does this come from and in what manner have these people been desensitised? The conditions of poverty and squalor in which these people live and the areas where this takes place are limited and easily definable. This is part of the reason. I never thought I would say the following because I remember speaking on the Video Recordings Bill where I was so much in favour of freedom of speech. People are acclimatised to horrendous violence by violent video games. This must be examined again.

There are absurd effects of this. I do not want to be bloodthirsty but I recall the phrase in the Bible that those who live by the sword die by the sword. The case of the man who blew his head off while showing an accomplice how to murder somebody is absurd to the point of laughability. My mother's favourite joke was a cartoon of a man who lost his index finger who was explaining to his workmate how it happened and the other four fingers were flying up in the air. It happened because the man was so stupid. One regrets every death but if anyone asks for it, it is someone from a gang. It shows they are not quite as clever as they thought they were. We must use these circumstances quite callously to illustrate the lack of intelligence. These people are admired and have promoted themselves. Consider the insensitive way a young female member of one of these gangs discussed on the Internet her favourite gun, among other fashion accessories. That is a deliberate provocation of society.

The Minister of State referred to the CAB and Senator Walsh approvingly referred to how other countries have admired it. I hope they knew it was Tony Gregory who suggested it and I who supported him in this House. The Government was not the slightest bit interested at that stage so there is no point in the Government taking credit for it now. Let the credit reside where it belongs, with the late Deputy Tony Gregory, who pointed out there was no co-ordination between the inland revenue, the social services and the Garda Síochána, and who consistently made the plea for co-ordination.

There is a relationship between drugs and guns. Frequently, guns come in as part of the drugs shipment for a variety of reasons. We are vulnerable to drugs because of our island geography. It is extremely difficult to police this area, even with European assistance. We were very foolish to allow ourselves, in an unsophisticated way, to be set up for this. One of the ways we did this was by ignoring heroin, despite what people like Tony Gregory were saying. We concentrated on cannabis, a recreational drug, which was a stupid diversion from the real target. They should have considered legalising cannabis.

The Minister of State, in his speech, mentioned Mr. Collins. I saw his father on television and I salute him and his family. It was immensely moving to see his grief and hear that, even though he knew that the same might happen again and he might lose a son, he would still do it because these people must be stopped. We need not look for support from the people; while we have magnificent, courageous, decent people like that in Limerick, we have the support of the people and must build on it. I honour and salute that extraordinary man.

The figures in the Minister of State's speech are a complete waste of time and are utter garbage. I remember being in the House when Michael McDowell produced the same figures. The Fianna Fáil Members analysed the figures and argued that the only reason an increase could be shown was because the figures took this or that starting point. They are not impressing anyone with that. We need to know not whether there was a percentage increase between 1997 and today but whether there are enough gardaí concentrated in the areas where they are necessary. There is a clearly demonstrable correlation between the numbers of gardaí and a drop in crime. The Minister of State should not try to fob us off with massaged figures that impress nobody.

I was interested in what the Minister of State said about trained asset profilers. I would have liked some more information on this as it was not explained, meaning it was just a phrase. I assume it means that people are professionally trained to detect, for example, if there is a sudden efflorescence of luxury in a working class estate, a Lamborghini is parked outside a door or people appear outside the front door looking extraordinarily tanned after a period of poor weather conditions and so on. I presume such people find anomalies and are able to profile and track people who could not afford items such as houses, boats or holidays on the social welfare they claim, for example. Can we have more information about what is involved?

There is the question of witness protection, which is very important. Can a programme be achieved and are there resources to do it? There should also be protection for gardaí and I ask the Minister to introduce special penalties for those who attack the emergency services.

Is there a proper register for handguns and is it updated regularly? May a person with a criminal record ever have a handgun? They should not be allowed to have one. With regard to the use of surveillance evidence, how would this be gained? How would long-distance voice recording be proven, for example, and is there a form of voice profiling? Mobile phone tracing has been useful in the past.

There is a clear need with regard to definition, for example, of members of a criminal organisation. Previously, there had been great difficulties in defining "gang" and the process came unstuck with that before. Will the Minister of State reassure the House that we have an appropriate definition of criminal organisation? How is that defined and how can people be deterred or prosecuted for that?