Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I also welcome the opportunity to speak on this motion. I congratulate Senators Boyle and de Búrca on tabling the motion, as it provides the House with an opportunity to discuss an important matter. However, I will support the Fine Gael amendment.

This discussion is timely, given that the economy is going down the tubes. There must be reform, not only of the Seanad but of the Civil Service. I agree with several Senators on and would see no problem with placing the appointments of chief executives and chairmen of State boards before the Seanad or one of its sub-committees. This good idea would, as Senator Hannigan stated, enhance the Seanad and make us accountable for our actions to the public, given that we would need to stand over the decisions of the House.

I agree with Senator Cummins and others concerning the drafting and passage of legislation that prohibits local authority members from being on State boards. For the life of me, I do not know why local authority members would be prohibited, given their vast experience and different backgrounds in all aspects of society and their election by and accountability to the people. It is not necessarily that they would want to be on those boards, but the legislation prohibits them from doing so. Some time ago, a motion was passed in the House to ensure future legislation would not contain such a prohibition measure. However, such a measure has often been before the House.

Pat Kenny, the presenter of the "Late Late Show" and his own radio show, issued the far side of the House with the ultimate insult. On this side, there are barristers, stockbrokers, bankers, doctors, nurses, lecturers, business people, teachers and trade unionists. We have different personalities from backgrounds and from the highest level of education. I am sure those on the far side of the House are just as qualified. On Mr. Kenny's "Late Late Show" and radio programme, he stated that two Senators on the Government side should resign and be replaced by Taoiseach's appointees who could be drafted into the Government to help in rectifying our economic problems. This and the fact that others have suggested the necessity of a national Government led me to believe that the Government has failed. It is an insult to Members of the House, especially those on the Government side. Mr. Kenny should withdraw his comments because both sides comprise highly qualified people. While I understand his argument, the Taoiseach could find two highly qualified people on the far side to appoint to the Government if he so desired.

There are 1,000 quangos. The debate on the national airwaves would give one the impression that the people want to abolish Seanad Éireann or Dáil Éireann before any of the quangos. This is because ministerial responsibility is lacking and Ministers are hiding behind some of the aforementioned quangos such as the Health Service Executive or the National Roads Authority. As for the taxi regulator, problems exist in respect of taxis in every city nationwide. On "Prime Time", Katie Hannon has reported that one quango that was due for abolition by a Minister is costing €90 million per year to run and employs 90 people. While it was due either for abolition or assimilation into another section of the relevant Department, that has not taken place.

However in the late 1980s, Ray MacSharry as Minister for Finance and his ministerial colleague, Pádraig Flynn, got rid of committees themselves. They did not wait for the recommendations of an bord snip or the Commission on Taxation to hide behind before doing what they were obliged to do. Ministerial responsibility is lacking, which is the reason so many quangos exist at present and Ministers are not making the decisions that should be made. I do not doubt that the requisite experience and qualifications exist within the various Departments of the Civil Service to make such decisions and there is no need for many such quangos. Reference was made to the existence of three tourism boards in Ireland and I question the need for them. I cannot discern a reason for three such boards as I understand that tourism has fallen by 11% at present.

I congratulate the Green Party on providing Members with the opportunity to debate this issue. I will support Fine Gael's amendment to the motion and hope that even at this late stage, Senator Boyle will take it on board.