Rónán Mullen (Independent)

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I am grateful that this very timely debate has been organised.

Nuair atáimid ag caint faoi luacha inár sochaí, is minic a deirimid gurb í an chaoi ina gcaithfimid leis na daoine is lú a bhfuil cumhacht acu an slat tomhais maidir le caighdeán ár sibhialtachta. Agus muid ag breathnú ar ár sochaí, measaim go gcaithfimid súil a choimeád i gcónaí ar ceist na luacha. Conas a chaithfimid le daoine nuair atá siad an-óg, nuair a bhíonn fadhbanna acu agus nuair atá siad ag dul in aois? Ba cheart dúinn bheith dearfach faoin aois. Ba chóir dúinn béim a chur ar an méid a thugann daoine níos sine don sochaí. Ag an am céanna, caithfimid bheith díograiseach nuair atáimid ag iarraidh dul i ngleic leis na fadhbanna a bhíonn ag daoine níos sine, mar shampla, ina dtithe cónaithe. Caithfimid déileáil, i gcomhthéacs na díospóireachta seo, leis na fadhbanna a bhíonn ag daoine níos sine atá ina gcónaí sa bhaile. Bíonn mí-ionsaí i gceist ó am go ham. Is slat tomhais dúinn uilig an chaoi ina oibrimid chun na fadhbanna áirithe a shárú. Is dócha go ndéanfar breithiúnas orainn amach anseo ar an chaoi ina láimhseáil muid na fadhbanna sin.

It is timely that we are having this debate, not least because of the very stark figure to which the Minister of State referred, namely, the troubling doubling of referrals to the Health Service Executive from approximately 900 in 2007 to more than 1,800 in 2008. In recent years, especially during the boom years of the Celtic tiger, we often asked whether we were forgetting about certain social values. People worried about a new coarseness and materialism.

We may look back with fondness on such debates but we were asking a very legitimate question. There was even a conference, entitled "Are we forgetting something?", organised by Fr. Harry Bohan and others. One of the indicators of the forgetfulness of the material society was undoubtedly the way in which older people were treated and often forgotten because of the new pressures on people in the workplace and also the greater propensity to neglect older people and exploit them as carers of children. Caring for a child can often be wonderful for the older person but sometimes the expectations generated can be oppressive.

These concerns continue to arise, even as we face economic problems. Perhaps it is more urgent than ever that they be addressed because there is a danger during a time of scarcer resources that we would not put the necessary supports in place to ensure we are doing everything possible to prevent the abuse of older people and to maximise the considerable resource they represent in society.

While I am conscious there is a danger in mythologising the past as idyllic, I must repeat a story told in our house many times over the years about an Ireland we no longer recognise. It was about a poor farm labourer boasting that he was raising a large family, paying off an old debt and putting money in the bank. The riddle concerned how he could do all this as a poor farm labourer. The answer was that he was looking after his parents in his own home, thereby paying off the old debt, and that by bringing up a large family he was putting money in the bank since his children would look after him in his old age. That was a story about a time when people were interdependent. As the Irish saying goes, "Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireann na daoine."

We should remember that was not an idyllic world. We know from Peig Sayers's now infamous autobiography that she was shown the door once the sister-in-law came into the house. Domestic life was not always idyllic. It seems that countless plays and novels depict the torrid relations between people of different generations living under the same room. One only has to think of the appalling scene in "The Beauty Queen of Leenane" involving the scalding of the older person to realise the idyllic scene was not always representative of the reality.

Life in recent times has been much better in many ways but for whom exactly? I learned not too long ago about a fairly well-off household in which the grandmother lived with her son, daughter-in-law and their family. The phrase "lived with" is something of a misnomer because granny resided in isolation and meals were sent up to her. She was to be seen occasionally but definitely not heard. Her presence was not welcome when the children were entertaining. While we like to celebrate community values in Irish life, this harshness can be in the middle of it all.

Being young has always been preferable to being old. Yeats talked about this not being "a country for old men". However, there was a certain mutual regard at times when age was honourable and youth was valuable. As family forms have changed, there often seems to be less appreciation of what older people have to offer outside their economic and safety related role as child carers for hard-pressed parents. In the years since the late Charles Haughey made the famous quip about Chinese leaders ruling into their old age, older people have become less prominent at the top in society. Youth or relative youth has become a requirement for the Presidency, the Cabinet, business leadership and perhaps even a prime time slot in RTE's programme schedule.

American academics have observed that all segments of society can hold negative attitudes towards ageing. Even stories about acute hospital beds being blocked by older people helped to fuel a perception that the elderly were a problem rather than people to whom society owed an obligation and who have needs we must address. In Britain in recent years, unhealthy elements crept into the debates on living wills, etc. Even Baroness Mary Warnock, who has been lauded in Britain and here as some kind of ethical expert and who was brought to speak at a conference here some years ago by a Government-established commission, was the very one who suggested that the frail and elderly should consider suicide rather than becoming a financial burden on their families and society. This lady was dubbed the "philosopher queen" by The Sunday Times and has been a key shaper of British laws on sensitive ethical issues. In 1993, Baroness Warnock agreed a ban on euthanasia but since changed her tune having been influenced by various famous cases.

Even those from whom we should expect more in society have bought into a certain harshness in terms of how they perceive more vulnerable members of society. Very often, those more vulnerable persons are the elderly. In this regard, consider the debate proposed to take place in the coming days in Cork University Hospital, organised by the Cork University Hospital Ethics Forum. At this debate, a leading academic, Professor Len Doyal, is to address the theme of why euthanasia should be legalised. This is very controversial. There is no doubt about Professor Doyal's academic credentials but certainly a lot of doubt about the values he espouses. He addresses the debate very much in material and financial terms, and in terms of preventing a burden to society.

One wonders about the lack of tact of a hospital in organising such a debate. It is all very well to have a debate in a university – we would all be for it and willing to hear the different sides – but to hold in a hospital a debate on why euthanasia should be legalised is questionable, given that older people or those who feel ill or vulnerable would see the poster. What type of message would it send to them at a time when people talk about scarce resources and worry about the response being adopted by the Government and those in power? I note that many good things are happening and I acknowledge the work being done by the HSE. It is fair to state that on the whole the HSE and the Department of Health and Children have risen well to the challenge of elder abuse. However, concerns exist and Age Action points out that yesterday's budget suspended the scheme of community support for older people which cost only €3.4 million last year but is vital for the support of community groups. We need to ensure that elder abuse officers are properly resourced so they can do their work.

According to international figures, between 3% and 5% of older people suffer abuse and, as was stated by Senator Fitzgerald, undoubtedly this is the tip of the iceberg when one considers all the abuse that is not reported and the pressure on people not to report abuse. Like the horrible evil of child abuse, very often the abuse can and does take place in situations of mutual dependency and trust where there is some good in the relationship but also bad. This is where abuse can be particularly insidious because people are not in as good a position to blow the whistle.

Age Action has pointed out that the financial and legal sectors need more training to recognise and deal effectively with elder abuse. I understand that a recent case occurred which involved a sales representative driving a pensioner to an ATM machine while the representative's colleague stayed behind in the pensioner's house. This is the type of matter that is of concern. While good work is being done by the HSE and the Department, we need to examine how the financial and legal sectors measure up. It is fair to state that banks and auctioneering firms are not sufficiently alert to the concept of elder abuse or the dangers of it. No structures are in place to deal with the detection and prevention of elder abuse, for example, where unusual spending patterns by elderly people arise. I gather that Australia and Massachusetts have such structures in place and we should examine them.

Certain financial products are abusive of older people. Even though the Law Society advises against dual representation where lawyers act for both parties, such as a child and the older abused person, there is no absolute ban on it. We need to be more vigilant in this area.

I would not like to conclude on exclusively negative terms. We must acknowledge very clearly what Professor Des O'Neill and the Irish Gerontological Society have called the demographic dividend. We need to acknowledge the good work being done by many older people who are very active, for example, as carers. Not only do they save the State a fortune but they bring great love and care into society in a way that the State could not possibly match. We need to be alert as we discuss the needs of more vulnerable older people in society to celebrate, champion and encourage the tremendous contribution they have to make, particularly in the context of the greater likelihood of people living to older age.