Cecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)

I thank the Cathaoirleach for allowing me to raise this issue. It concerns the need for the Minister for Transport to review the ability of rural hackney men to convert to taxi licences where infrastructure is absent and they compete with illegal operators. It is obviously a gripping subject for the Members leaving the Chamber.

I appreciate the attendance of the Minister of State who has a role in the Department of Transport. I also appreciate that he knows far more about the taxi industry given that it is more pertinent to urban centres. I did not need to take much interest or notice of the deregulation of the industry or the issues related to it at the time because for generations taxi drivers in areas of Donegal had their own way of operating. There were no taxi drivers in many places. The legislation in place has changed that dynamic.

In raising this issue I am not trying to oust any motorist who has a taxi licence nor do I intend to challenge his or her right to make a living. What I challenge is the fact it does not pay people to buy a taxi licence in some rural areas. Yet if they operate as hackneys in the way they used to operate as taxis, which was the tradition where they would drive along the street and pick up people who hailed them on leaving the pub or some other premises, they would be breaking the law. For generations standing outside in the rain beside the car was no different from sitting inside in the car. However, I am not here to advocate breaking the law. I am here to say there is an issue that needs to be addressed.

I believe it costs €5,500 to buy a licence and the meter costs another couple of thousand euro. I am told it costs approximately €7,000 to €7,500 to get set up legitimately as a taxi operator. The difficulty is that hackney drivers in my area cannot be guaranteed they will have the infrastructure from which to operate. I am told that one taxi operator in Monaghan who despite having paid for a taxi licence needs to operate as a hackney because there is no taxi rank to pull into. That person needs to roam the streets and has gained no advantage in buying a taxi licence. Senator O'Sullivan said Listowel is no different with incursions from other counties.

In my area there are problems with both illegal operators and operators illegally coming from the North. The busy nights for the legitimate hackney operators are being raided by taxis that might or might not be licensed in the North coming to operate without a licence in the South. They are taking the bread out of the mouths of the people legitimately operating as hackneys in, for example, Buncrana and Moville. These people are providing a service and we would be encouraging them to get taxi plates. We cannot give them infrastructure because it is not being provided. They are saying they cannot make ends meet. They are not able to make their living because the taxi regulator is more interested in dealing with claims against them than claims against the completely illegal operators coming in from the North.

I am told that the people cannot be dealt with if they are from outside the jurisdiction. I therefore ask the Minister of State to talk to the taxi regulator to ascertain what strengthening of regulations might be needed to deal with this situation. We need a level playing field. I would say that the same applies in all Border areas. I know that in Letterkenny, which has a number of licensed taxis, there is a serious issue with people crossing from the other side of the Border without having Republic of Ireland taxi licences. I suppose that is why the taxi regulator's staff are spending so much time in Donegal — they are trying to deal with the big problem there.

My issue is that we want to have a service. We want people to be able to get to wherever they need to get to. In many cases there is no bus service so people rely on what we all call taxis but which in my area in reality are hackneys. Is there an argument for considering having in rural areas a reduced licence fee with conditions of use requiring operators to stay within, for example, eight or ten miles of the location for which the licence is issued? In other words if people were trying to get home from the pub in Moville, Clonmany, Carndonagh, or Buncrana the operators would work within a restricted zone so they could not tip over to the bigger urban centres and challenge the people paying the full licence and yet be able to make a living themselves. I am asking for a review of how this is operating around the country. I am told by many colleagues throughout the country that there is a problem with getting people to buy the licences because there is no infrastructure. We want people to be legitimate and able to earn a living. At the moment we seem to be caught between two stools. A review of the situation is very much warranted at this point.