Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I thank all Senators for an excellent debate. I do not have time to respond to every Member but I have made a note of issues raised by various Members and I wish to deal with these in a positive and proactive way. I agree with the points made by Senator Alex White. The university panel is elitist and its continuing existence is credible in the context of being a vocational group, where every other citizen of the State also has access to a vote for the Seanad. In that regard this fits well with the philosophy that is contemplated in the Constitution, that the university graduates are a group as long as every other citizen has the same access.

I disagree with Senator Norris's views on indirect election. The concept of indirect election by local authority members or one tier of democracy is well established worldwide. My objection to it is the overwhelming number of Members elected through that method. The proposal by Fine Gael today or the report of the reform group is the way to go.

I agree with the point made by Senator Glynn on urban and town councillors. If we allow the concept of indirect election this should include all those elected on that first tier. I said this before when urban and town councillors made their contribution to the reform group in this Chamber four years ago.

To three or four Senators who referred to this, I wish to point out that there is no mention of a list system in my motion. When I draft motions I take trouble to examine what will alienate people and what will not. I did not mention a list system.