Martin Mansergh (Tipperary South, Fianna Fail)

I am not conscious of having used the phrase, "raising revenue". I referred a great deal to cutting and reducing expenditure, which is not the same. In a strict technical fashion, the word used in the legislation is "deduction", as the word "levy" is a little loose and has given rise to the comments made by Senator White.

There is the overriding need to reduce public expenditure of which public service pay is a significant element. In that context, it is necessary to secure the optimum savings possible from the pension-related deduction and it is essential, therefore, to have the widest coverage. The principle underpinning the deduction is that it applies to all persons who are members of public service pension schemes, are entitled to benefits under such schemes or receive payments in lieu of membership of such schemes. The deduction is in recognition of the preferential pension terms that all public servants enjoy compared to the generality of their private sector counterparts both in terms of security and terms available. The Minister has tried to the greatest extent, consistent with the need to reduce significantly the public service pay bill, to ameliorate the effects on lower paid public servants through the banding approach. Public servants in the pay category mentioned are part-time employees.

This also applies to the minimum wage. It is a fallacy to assume part-time employees and those who take up part-time employment on the minimum wage are necessarily the poorest of the poor or from the lowest income categories. People from all social classes may be in that category.