David Norris (Independent)

As we are firing people from the banks, how about firing a few people from the Department of Finance? There is also the matter of the social partners. It is obscene that people are taking 3% or 6% pay increases and saying they got them under the agreement. Nobody should be taking an increase of any kind, private or public. That should be made clear before we start taking anything from people. We can do that afterwards. I do not know how anybody would have the brass neck, in these circumstances, to take any pay increase. Although they are legally entitled to it, they are not morally entitled to it.

The Minister of State indicated:

For example, taking account of all taxes and other mandatory stoppages such as income tax, PRSI, standard pension contribution, the health and income levies and the new pension-related deduction, an unmarried public servant earning €20,000 a year — and no full-time employee earns less — will pay 11% of his gross income in total deductions when the new deduction is introduced. An equivalent public servant earning €100,000 a year will pay total deductions of 43%.

These are all percentages and there is no understanding of the impact on somebody living on the barest margins of a 1% increase. Issues are being compared mathematically, arithmetically and in a Dickensian way that shows no comprehension of the human reality underneath. I find that distressing.

Considering the language in the speech, we have the same phrase time and again along the lines, "It has been said that someone earning €30,000 will pay a higher percentage of their salary than somebody earning €45,000." It is as if by stating, "It has been said" the Government is excused from a proper explanation. The explanation we get is that it must be understood that this is due to the operation of tax relief. Big bloody deal, as it still pinches the people. Stating the mechanism by which it is done does not prove that it is fair, just, appropriate or acceptable from the people's perspective. I do not believe for one minute that it will be accepted.

I made a very restrained intervention when the Minister of State stated:

Against that background, the Government those in secure pensionable employment and with Government-guaranteed pensions to make their contribution towards addressing both today's difficulties, and the longer-term sustainability challenges facing public service pensions. . . .

That does not mean anything. It is completely absurd and total nonsense. Although he probably did not hear me, I asked the Minister of State if we could have a verb. I am rather partial to verbs and an occasional verb here and there does tend to help make sense of a sentence.