David Norris (Independent)

I am very pleased to be able to contribute. I thank the Minister of State and Senator Hanafin for graciously being flexible to allow it to happen. I will not fire all my shots on this occasion because I am seeking, and will continue determinedly to seek, a rolling debate on finance, to take place every week. One reason I want to speak is because I know the way in which the Leader of the House tends to pick people off. If I did not speak tonight, I would be asked why I did not bother doing so when I had the opportunity.

With regard to what Senator MacSharry said on the leadership of the banks, the banks have betrayed us. Every single one of the four principal pillars of this country — priests, politicians, lawyers and bankers — has let us down. There is an analogy with the church because there are decent priests in the church who are afraid to go out. They, in the aftermath of the scandals over sexual abuse, have been spat upon. They are decent people and the same is the case for front-of-house staff in the banks. I know this and never attacked the ordinary, decent front-of-house staff. By God, for years I have had disagreements with the banks. They never wanted to know the ordinary, decent customer. They were established to look after and manage savings and keep safe the earnings of ordinary, decent people. They then pushed us out and did not want to be dirtied by ordinary people. They chased speculative profits and that is why the current circumstances have arisen and why the unfortunate front-of-house staff get attacked.

I have a couple of remarks on the general area of finance. We are always talking about Seanad reform and there is supposed to be a committee sitting to discuss it. I do not know what the committee is doing and the only thing it seems to be doing is targeting university seats, in the name of democracy, although those seats comprise the only democratic element in the whole bloody place. Let the committee take on board the question as to why Senators are treated as some kind of intellectual and moral halfwits such that they are not allowed to have anything to do with money. We can prate here for as long as we like but, under the Constitution, we are not allowed to spend or supervise the spending of one single brass farthing. Let us address this.

Let us consider the question of the nationalisation of the banks. Everybody is saying it is a great idea and that we must recapitalise etc. I made a few suggestions in this regard, one of which is that we should sequester all the rotten, speculative property. It will increase in value at some stage. Let us take it from the speculators, take it out of the books of the banks and put it under the aegis of a particular body. I am not suggesting a toxic bank but a national property management agency similar to the National Treasury Management Agency. It should be staffed by proper professionals who can mange the properties and eventually make a profit. Let the property owners have 10% of the proceeds as a gratuity at the end of the process.

Nobody can wave the Constitution in front of my nose and say property is protected because it is dependent on the governing clause, which refers to the public good. I doubt any person on this island would say to me the public good is better served in the interest of a tiny number of people who have ripped off every decent citizen in the land rather than in the interest of the ordinary people. My argument could clearly be sustained.

Let us have a bit of leadership. Reference was made to President Obama, who did at least talk clearly, intelligibly and forthrightly. I have always listened to Senator MacSharry, who is usually very good, but tonight I had no idea what he was talking about. He referred to what seemed to be some kind of financial octopus moving in many different directions at the same time in baby steps. What in the name of God does that mean? Can the Tánaiste be kept off the airwaves as she does not inspire confidence? I will restrain myself to making that point. Can we please get somebody who knows what he or she is talking about?

Will the Minister of State please ask the banks to learn a little? Why are they handing out below-cost mortgages? Yesterday morning people were receiving offers of unsecured loans to the value of €9,000. What happened to the notion of collateral? The senior management of banks should be cleared out. Who should they be replaced with? Not hedge fund managers. I laughed hollowly when at the weekend I noticed our two former taoisigh, Garret FitzGerald, retired from a hedge fund, and Deputy Bertie Ahern, who was off in Tegucigalpa collecting large sums of money for talking to the misfortunate, misguided inhabitants over there about the Celtic tiger. He apparently has not realised that particular animal picked up a thorn on its back foot fairly recently.