Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)

I second the proposition by Senator Fitzgerald that the Minister for Health and Children come to the Seanad to debate the proposed cutbacks by the HSE of €1 billion, an astronomical figure, which cannot take place without huge implications. We need to debate this because the focus of these cutbacks — this is why we need a debate — must be on the wastage with bonuses, inordinate salaries, consultants' reports and advisers and top-heavy administration wherever it exists. This time the focus must not be, as it always has been up to now — the Government stood by as this happened — on home help, hope care assistants and support systems for people in need. We need a debate so that there can be a democratic input to the decisions. It is up to us to ensure the weak are not made scapegoats on this occasion and that the vulnerable are not hit. We must ensure the people who need support in their homes receive it and those who require visits to outpatient clinics and hospitals can make them.

This House must be told by the Minister what hospitals will close and what services will be cut. Where will the €1 billion be cut? This is a democratic question and not an administrative one. If the people on the other side of the House want to know today why there is public anger it is not because people do not accept the need for cutbacks. Everybody on the street knows we need to trim the national sails — that is understood — but the anger generates from the fact that the cutbacks are directed at the weak and the poor, at the baseline. People across the board will accept a fair system. Will the Leader invite the Minister for Health and Children to discuss this matter so that we can put a direction on where the €1 billion cuts will be made? We should influence that decision. It is our decision and we are elected by the people to do so. It is the HSE's function to administer our decisions. Our decision should be not to cut back on front-line services.

Senator Harris was correct to draw attention to the great man who was a hero and served as a role model for us all, Christy Nolan. His name is a very good one to which to refer but saluting his great life, tenacity and courage should make us realise that, in the process of making cutbacks of €1 billion, we should not hit the Christy Nolans throughout this country or future generations of Christy Nolans. That is our moral responsibility. The people on the street will back this House if we are cutting equitably but they are sick of cuts that are directed at the weak, poor and vulnerable.