Alex White (Labour)

Over recent months in the current crisis there has been much comment on what has occurred in the banks and the wider economy. An opinion piece this morning by a former, very senior official in one of the organisations that has figured in the news in recent days offers the most eloquent analysis of what has occurred over this period, particularly in the financial institutions. I commend the article in today's The Irish Times by Mr. Donal Casey. It is a calm, measured and devastating analysis of what has happened. One of the conclusions he draws is that public trust in the banking system is "shattered beyond repair", to use his phrase. It is a devastating conclusion. He is not somebody who is in any way detached or semi-detached from what has occurred, but has been very closely involved in it. He talks about people living in a parallel universe and so forth.

My colleagues have called for another debate on the banking system. I would welcome such a debate but it should be structured in a particular way, whereby we could examine the question of trust and the issues Mr. Casey raises in his excellent article. We could use that debate on the banks and financial institutions to open a wider debate, which the Leader might consider facilitating, on the issue of confidence and trust in the entire political system. I accept I sound like a broken record on this but I will continue to do so. One can say the banking system is broken but a compelling argument can be made that the political system is also broken. The political system is not responding to the issues people are talking about.

I am not making a partisan point; I could make many partisan points but I am not making this one in a partisan way. Every day we can see that the political system is not seen to be responding and facilitating the type of collective effort the Taoiseach and others say we must make. One of the issues that must be addressed is the profoundly unhealthy relationship that exists between the political system and certain elements of big business, particularly banks and financial institutions. Members on the other side of the House sometimes roll their eyes and think Members on this side are simply being politically correct when we say this. However, there should not be a close association between the Taoiseach or other Government Ministers and business persons. It does not mean that anybody is alleging anything untoward is taking place. It is simply not proper for Government Ministers ever to have private meetings with senior business figures. All relationships and contacts with senior business officials and lobbyists should be conducted publicly. I do not mean out on St. Stephen's Green but they should be conducted in a formal way that is recorded so the people who elect and pay their Government can see what is happening and what are those relationships. I seek a debate on those issues.

When Members on this side of the House talk about, for example, curbs on freedom of information, political donations and the other issues that irritate some people in the community and some politicians, there is a reason for doing that and calling for regulation. That puts some form of control and discipline over the sometimes very unhealthy relationship that tends to develop between Government and business. Judge McCracken spoke about this in his report ten or 11 years ago in the context of his comments on the late Mr. Haughey and the Dunnes payments. To paraphrase the judge, he said that even if a direct relationship could not be proven in respect of a particular payment, it gives rise to a reasonable suspicion in the eyes of members of the community that such things are taking place. People think there is a golden circle. All the pleading, complaining and irritation by the Taoiseach about it will not solve the problem unless real measures are taken to address it.