Cecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)

I do not regularly speak on such matters but as others have said, we are all bankers now, so I suppose we have a vested interest. From that perspective, we should declare our interest if that is the appropriate thing to do at this point. It is a classic example of saying, if we were going where we wanted to go, we would not start from here at all. Nobody wants to be in a situation where legislation is going through the House to support banks. On the other hand, I have met people trying to get a car loan who are subjected to all sorts of hoops and hurdles.

Children attending the Oireachtas schools project will ask why we are bailing out the banks. We explain to them that if the banks cannot lend money and an entrepreneur cannot fund a business, there is a problem. Unfortunately, therefore, the State has had to come to the aid of the banks.

All I have heard from the Opposition is about share options and statements that we are not doing the right thing. Its Members cannot complain that we are not giving enough money and are giving too much all in the one sentence, which seems to be what I am hearing from across the floor. The idea of dumping everything into a toxic bank begs the question as to who will pay for that bank. We own Anglo-Irish Bank but if the only suggestion is that all bad debts should be put into it, surely it will create a massive hole for the taxpayer. I would prefer people who are more expert in such matters to explain how that would work and why it is as good a proposal as some people seem to think. If it were that easy, why are we not doing it?

There is a national problem because people are not spending money and neither are they getting money from the banks. There is also an international problem concerning whether people choose to invest here. Funds must be made available for sound business entrepreneurs to enable them to provide employment. Such funds should be used to start the country's economic recovery.

I recently attended a plenary session of the Council of Europe in Strasbourg where we spent a full day discussing the global crisis. Sometimes people think this is just an Irish phenomenon, but it is far from that. The Icelandic people were able to stand up and have a right go, as it were, at the United Kingdom because Iceland was placed on a website that put it among al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups. When one sees countries such as France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Russia and Poland having to deal with this matter, one realises that it is a very big issue and is not particular to Ireland.

Given the shocking facts that have emerged in recent weeks and months, the question of confidence arises. The goal of this recapitalisation is important to reinforce the stability of the financial system and increase confidence in the banking system in Ireland. We must facilitate the banks to get them lending. I would be as strong a critic of what has gone on as anyone else in either Chamber. It is one thing to say we would not start from here, but we must find a mechanism to examine and evaluate what did happen. We must see why it happened, who was involved and who oversaw it, including the Financial Regulator and bank board members. They should be made to pay. We will be going nowhere until the public sees that we are dealing with those at the helm who did this.

Various issues have arisen in my constituency over the years, including people with Northern bank accounts who did not realise they were supposed to tell the tax man about them. They paid back their entitlements and more on top. They feel they were pursued and were victims of lack of information or that they were cajoled into things that were, technically, not above board, while the people at the helm were able to walk away from most of this. I found it difficult to listen to the 1 o'clock news today and hear a chief executive of one of the banks say he was finally going to be subjected to a huge reduction in his salary. When pushed as to what this reduction would mean for him, he said it was being reduced from €2.9 million to €2 million this year.

I will not compare us with America because like apples and oranges, we cannot compare the issues here with what is happening in other countries. Many people have listened to the media pounding on about earnings of people in one country versus those in others. No matter what scale we use, it is hard for average citizens to comprehend the earnings of our bank executives. In the current economic climate, or any other, it is difficult for citizens who see the disaster that is our banking system currently and who are watching the attempts to move forward to understand the "me" culture of no rainy day and still plenty to spend. With regard to the words relating to salary reductions of "at least 33%" or "at least 25%", I think there is scope to move beyond the words "at least" and push for more realistic salaries.

When we were trying to implement our cancer strategy, we went outside of Ireland to find an independent expert, Professor Keane, to come and spend two years here and make the difficult decisions that people within the area could not make, perhaps because of professional friendships. It is time to look beyond Ireland for someone who can evaluate what has been going on in our banking system and suggest what can be done. As we have seen from the issues that have arisen, Ireland is too small a place to be able to clean up the system properly.

My final point concerns mortgages, particularly loans or mortgages of farmers who borrowed to complete jobs in the waste management area. Some people have genuine issues, but will be able to pay back their loans when they receive their guaranteed grants. I would expect banks not to call in those loans or not to issue high-interest bridging loans to those borrowers. Instead, they should absorb the losses until such time as the Government presents the cheques due. We need a balance between calls for payment and the ability to pay. If people are avoiding paying because they think the banks can absorb their losses, that is unacceptable, but if they cannot afford to pay back their loan, there are legitimate reasons the issue should be addressed.