John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)

The discussion has been interesting, but it does not relate to any particular amendment. I appreciate the contributions that have been made and the concerns expressed. I am aware Senator Ellis is concerned with regard to his constituency and that is understandable. Other constituencies are equally affected by the deliberations of this particular commission. Deputies and Senators in the Green Party have also been affected by the decisions made by the commission.

I will start by correcting some misconceptions. I never stated the decision on the number of Deputies was the first decision. Various decisions were made, but I was not privy to them. I am in the same position as any Deputy or Senator in these Houses. If I could influence the way the commission thinks, that would be marvellous. It would give me as an individual a huge amount of power. In the past, we have seen the difficulties where Ministers could intervene in some way. Unfortunately, the consequences of such interventions were negative. It is for that reason we have an independent commission to adjudicate on these sensitive issues.

The commission could of course have decided to move to a higher number of Deputies, but it did not. It made its decisions and there was widespread disquiet on a number of the issues from people in all parties, including Ministers. Some Ministers have spoken to me about the issues, but I do not have any information about the process or substance of the deliberations.

Senator Bradford asked what was the starting point for the deliberations. The starting point was the terms of reference and these were made available to the public. I have experience with regard to terms of reference. For example, the commission working on the terms for the local elections was asked to ensure villages remained intact. However, I know, because it affects my area, that a line was drawn through villages. This had negative consequences for me. People asked, as I am the Minister, if I could reverse those decisions, but I would not do that. I cannot interfere. Every commission report has been accepted by previous Ministers and it would set a very poor precedent if I was to tell the commission to go back to the drawing board because I did not like the result.

I know that is not the sort of answer Senator Ellis wants to hear, but I appreciate his concerns. I remind him that I have started the process of setting up an electoral commission and we have published a very interesting document which I urge all Members to read. One of the ideas in that document is that we set boundaries to which no changes will be made. What will be changed instead will be the number of Deputies representing the area. This seems to me an eminently sensible way to proceed. I hope Members will have an input into that and support this recommendation.