Seanad debates

Tuesday, 10 February 2009

Education Matters: Statements

 

6:00 pm

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)

I welcome the Minister to the House. He is one of the bright spots in a Government which has become unsure and stumbling in confronting this extremely difficult situation. The Minister has dealt with matters under his aegis with decision and clarity. Not all the decisions are palatable and not all of them recommend themselves. One will have squawks and screeches from all over the place, which is understandable because there is virtue behind some of the complaints, but we are living in an exceptionally difficult situation. I have the greatest respect for my friend and colleague, Senator Buttimer, but as a graduate of Trinity College who lectured there for many years and is strongly supportive of student rights, I feel one cannot dismiss the idea of reintroducing some degree of payment for education, particularly at third level. I say this knowing that it is going to cost me votes. I have said it to student groups, including when I was asked to talk to them in Trinity College. The reason is perfectly simple: in a situation where there are very limited resources, if one wants to achieve social justice those resources are most appropriately directed and targeted at the most vulnerable sections who otherwise would not get to university at all. It will cause some pain to the middle classes but if we want a more equal society, that is what will happen. It will not be popular but it will certainly have to be considered.

I spoke to some of the student representatives but they did not really have a case. First, "free fees" as a statement is rubbish, it is illiterate. There are either fees or education is free — one cannot mix the two up and have free fees. Somebody is paying somewhere, and it is the taxpayer. I am proud to be a part of the Trinity access programme, which brings a small number of people in from disadvantaged areas, although it is not enough.

In a situation where fees are apparently abolished, the most marginalised people find it impossible to get access to university. For example, if they live 30 miles outside Dublin and are going to a city college, they will face the cost of transport, books and accommodation. It rules people out, but the Minister should be ruling people in. Everybody is suspicious because the real problem is the means test. In order to get the support of people like myself who are honourable, honest and will support the Minister, despite the electoral cost, the Minister must indicate his thinking on the means test. It has to be sufficiently high so that people are not caught on a kind of barbed wire of educational disadvantage. The Minister will have my support on fees and I will make that known to my voters and the university circles generally, whatever the cost, because I know that has to happen. We must examine this issue to see if we can make the situation fairer, more just and equitable while still being accessible.

It is very important that we continue to support third level education. The Provost of Trinity College is away, but I was in touch with him by e-mail and he has emphasised the necessity of continuing to promote research. However, he says we should not forget the linkage between research and the teaching commitment, the balance between the sciences and the humanities, the importance that access should be increased, greater activity and entrepreneurship.

I may be parochial in saying this, but I am very proud of all the Dublin universities. I am aware there has been some whispering about mergers and I would like to hear what the Minister has to say on that. I will read what he says later because I have to leave as soon as I make this short speech. The issue of mergers sent a shiver down our spines some time ago and I would like to know what is planned. If mergers are on the agenda, what is in place in that regard? It has been said that the Government feels that four or five universities in Dublin is too many. What is the thinking on this and what kind of rationalisation is involved? I believe all the universities in Dublin are good ones. I am very proud of Dublin City University, that great northside institution. Trinity College hovers on the brink, but never quite made it to the northside. However, it is a wonderful institution and is in the top 200 universities. We can be very proud of its success in the ratings, as we can be of UCD.

The areas of which we can be proud, which is what I think the Provost was getting at, are areas such as innovation, where we get value out of the universities. Universities are not just for chasing ideas, although that is important and must be continued. We must continue programmes in the arts, classics, architecture etc. However, I have just looked at some of the things that have happened in the past year or so through Trinity College. Researchers there developed a test for prediction and risk assessment in the early stages of Alzheimer's disease. That is wonderful. The development of this test also involved genetic work. The researchers have developed a new cerebrus spinal fluid that is used as a test for early Alzheimer's disease and which shows up the production of amyloid plaques on the brain that clog the neural circuits. This is an important advance that will affect people and may lead to the development of a drug to delay or stop onset of the disease. When we consider how the profits from Tysabri reactivated Elan, we can see how this test could lead to creating employment. An important series of discoveries have also been made with regard to coeliac disease, which is a disease where there is an intolerance in the intestine to gluten.

Development of such ideas does not just happen in Trinity College. Researchers at the Waterford Institute of Technology have come up with new ideas in terms of macular degeneration of the retina. I am interested in that because I suffer from it. To a certain extent, macular degeneration is the wearing out of the retina because of age, but a fair amount can be done for it. This is the kind of research that is important.

A psychosis research group in Trinity College has come up with valuable research on schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, what used to be called manic depression. It has done this by analysing the chromosomal structures and detecting particular characteristics in the brain. This is remarkable and will be of value to people who suffer from schizophrenia, a condition from which people all over the world suffer.

At our stage of life we all know people or friends who have died or had treatment for cancer. We have colleagues in this situation. A remarkable advance has been made in the understanding of the mechanism for cell suicide, the mechanism by which cells switch off and stop replicating. This has an implication for cancer patients, because cancer cells go the other way and go mad replicating. This will be very useful research.

I could go on about the removal of various grants in the VEC sector, but the Minister knows all about that. The removal of the book grant is serious because it hits the poorest. I urge the Minister to reconsider that.

I am aware Senator Ross made a passionate plea for Church of Ireland schools. Although I am expected to do the same, I will take a different direction. I would love to see my ethos continue. I go to St. Patrick's Cathedral every Sunday and I hope people continue to do that, but I do not believe a religious ethos should be passed on through the schools. A religious ethos is for parents to pass on to their children. Schools are for facts.

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