John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)

There are some Ministers of State who have nine or ten people working in their offices. That is not acceptable. It has spiralled out of control in recent years and we need to get back to some semblance of reality. People expect this to happen and the Government should lead by example in this regard. The number of Ministers of State should be reduced significantly, as should the number of Oireachtas committees. There are around 20 Oireachtas committees and there is ample scope to cut back.

Senator Norris made an interesting point about the possibility of public works and a schools initiative, with which I largely concur. He also raised the difficulty that has emerged of unfinished housing estates in towns and villages throughout the country. Building work has not been completed on many of the houses and many of the estates have been left unfinished for a long period of time. I am puzzled that the Government appears to be cutting back significantly on spending on social and affordable housing for local authorities at a time when there will be more people on housing lists. There are already approximately 56,000 people on the lists. There is obviously a glut in the housing market and, while I do not know the ins and outs of the market, I am sure something useful along the lines of what Senator Norris suggested should be examined.

The problems we face in the public finances are a symptom of what has happened in the Irish economy in the past couple of years. They are due primarily to our lack of competitiveness. Our competitive position has deteriorated significantly. Senators Norris and Harris were correct to point out that, in effect, the private sector pays for the public sector. If we are haemorrhaging jobs at a huge rate in the private sector, as is occurring now, there obviously will be a shortfall in income for the Government to support the public sector. We need to get back to basics, to quote the phrase used across the water, in terms of competitiveness in the Irish economy. The Government has a key role in that regard.

There have been a number of speeches recently by Government speakers in this House and elsewhere about the energy crisis. A significant job must be done to reduce the costs of energy. There is also the issue of Government charges, while VAT was mentioned earlier in the debate by previous speakers. There are also problems with wages. I do not have a difficulty with the minimum wage but the arrangement whereby a particularly high rate is paid for weekend work is causing huge difficulties for small businesses, particularly in the service sector. This matter should be examined as well.

Senator Butler referred to Waterford Crystal. I am familiar with the industry as I live only ten miles from Waterford city. I know many people who have worked there over the years. It is disgraceful that one of the workers, who spoke to Senator Cummins this week and has worked for Waterford Crystal for 44 years, has discovered he does not have a pension. There is something very wrong with that. Interestingly, Senator Norris referred to the British pension insurance scheme. There should be something similar in this country. It will not provide any comfort for the workers in Waterford Crystal but it should be put in place for the future. I fear that the black hole in the pension provisions in Waterford Crystal will be replicated in other businesses across the country. We should not allow people who have spent their lives working in those businesses to be thrown on the scrap heap when they leave.

I welcome the opportunity to participate in this discussion. There is a greater sense that the Government side is listening to what the Opposition has to say and is taking on board some of the more constructive arguments being made by all sides. I welcome that. Like Senator Harris, however, I believe the full realisation might not have dawned on the general public of the country's grave situation, given the numbers on the live register announced yesterday and the figures announced earlier this week for the reduction in tax income in the month of January. The country is in a stark grave position. The announcement this week is a small step in the right direction but I believe we will have to go further.