John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)

Some of the provisions for the pension levy are worthy of comment. People on lower incomes in the public sector are being treated a little unfairly. I was talking to a nurse yesterday who is to lose almost €2,000 from her income because of the Government's measures. I would not consider somebody on €32,000 or €33,000 to be a very high-earning public servant. If I were in the Taoiseach's position, I would have tilted the levy a bit more towards those who are earning more in the public sector. However, I do believe something had to be done and I support the taking of action. The only criticism is that it should have been done sooner.

I agree with Senators Harris, Norris and others who have spoken about the need to reform the way we operate in this and the other House, especially with regard to the costs of Government. There is a need to lead by example. I acknowledge that the Government members have taken a voluntary cut in their incomes. I support that and it is to be commended. However, we need to consider the number of Ministers of State, and the biggest disgrace is the staff attached to the offices of the Ministers of State. I am not casting any aspersions on the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, and I do not know how many people he has working in his office.