David Norris (Independent)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Barry Andrews. I listened to part of what the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, had to say and I read the document he provided. Like Senator Harris, I agree with much of its content. The Government now wishes to take resolute action. Unfortunately, it has not been resolute all the way through. There has been a certain amount of fumbling. In a situation where what is needed internationally is confidence, that is very dangerous. It is worse than causing fear and worse than facing the situation we are in. I am glad the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, in a manner uncharacteristic of Ministers in general, has described the economic situation as "stark". That is unusually uncompromising language.

It is appropriate that we recognise the reality of the current crisis and that there is an international aspect to it. The State is obliged to repay borrowings from the European Central Bank at a rate 2.5 percentage points higher than that paid by Germany. This is nothing other than a confidence issue. For that reason, there must be firm, clear and concerted action supported by all members of society.

However, there are aspects that are divisive. We are not unique in this. The President of the United States, Mr. Obama, recently had to reprimand Wall Street companies in the strongest terms because in the middle of this crisis, with financial institutions on the slide, chief executive officers had taken a total of €18.8 billion in bonuses. These people have no shame.

Greed, vulgarity and selfishness are not unique to the economic ruling classes of this country. It is a general situation and so too are the financial difficulties. They represent a systemic failure of 21st century capitalism, a reality which must eventually be tackled. We must deal with the immediate crisis but, as I have said before, we must also examine the basic issue of money and the way in which our entire financial system has lost touch with the reality that money is supposed to represent. The notion of the worker worthy of his or her hire has gone entirely astray. However, I will not go into that theoretical issue today.

The situation gets worse even as we sit in this Chamber. Before coming into the House, I listened to the news headlines announcing that Drummonds, the large grain company, is in trouble. Sony Ericsson management has just called in its workers for discussions. We know what that means. The Bank of England has reduced its interest rate to an historic low of 1%. In the 300 years in which the bank has been in operation, the rate has never been so low. The British Government expects as many as 3 million to be unemployed by the end of the year. We will be lucky to get away with a figure of 400,000.

A difficulty for this State relates to the balance between the public and private sectors. The money to pay the public sector comes from the private sector. If there is a substantial collapse in private sector employment, how will the Government find the money to pay the public sector? This is an issue we must tackle. I agree with Senator Harris that we all must take a lead. I hoped yesterday to raise the issue of the pay rise for ESB workers but there was not time to do so. However, several of my colleagues raised it this morning on the Order of Business. I congratulate the Leader on the commitment he has given to use his influence to seek a reduction in ESB rates. Those rates are one of the factors that make this State completely uncompetitive. It is indecent for ESB workers, who have an advantageous pension system comparable even to that of Oireachtas Members — and God knows we are well fortified — to take a 3.5% pay rise.