David Norris (Independent)

We need somebody to go in there who has those powers. It seems to be an extraordinary situation. Reference was made to the position of the chairman whom I have met, and who is a charming man, but a man with an extraordinary attitude towards life. He was able to take out loans that were concealed which varied between €80 million and €100 million. These were neatly swiped off the books every year with the co-operation of other financial institutions. He was in the newspapers shortly after I interviewed him on a radio programme to say he thought that old age pensioners should be means tested for the medical card because the country was living beyond its means. He was certainly living beyond the country's means.

What happens to the loan advanced by this bank to its own chairman? As we nationalise the bank, we are presumably undertaking responsibility for those loans. Does that mean this gentleman has his €80 million-plus loan secured by the taxpayer? That would be extraordinary, which is why I want the Minister to be aware of this question. It is one in which the taxpayer would be most interested.

The Minister also indicated he was not aware whether any criminality had occurred. Again, that may be part of his judicious approach to the whole issue. On a different Bill in the past year, an amendment was defeated which sought to protect citizens of this State from going to jail for not paying television licences. Yet, somebody can apparently swindle their way to €100 million and there is no question of that person going to jail. The ordinary citizen would be very interested to know whether any criminality is involved in this. If the officials who are principally charged with this area do not have sufficient powers, those powers should be conferred, and perhaps they should be conferred within this Bill, as Senator Kelly has suggested and which would be highly appropriate. This is probably the most significant amendment we are likely to reach today.

I could go on but I know time is limited. There is a guillotine and it would be very unfair of me to expatiate too much at this stage. However, this is a highly important amendment and I will certainly support it.