Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. Dealing with this issue recently has been difficult for her. While my high regard for her has not been reduced, I oppose this appalling decision, which has caused hurt, chaos and worry among many elderly people who have given their lives and made a considerable contribution to the country. It is a sad end for them.

I wish to raise a number of issues. What will be lost because of the introduction of the Bill? In 1999, the Government introduced free medical cards for over 80 year olds, a small percentage of the population at the time. It would be churlish of me not to acknowledge the substantial improvement over the original proposal, but it is not enough. Nor are the ways in which the barriers and problems have been addressed enough. I will revert to some of these points. Given the cutbacks, I have not heard an explanation as to why the question of free medical cards for over 80 year olds has not been addressed. Will the Government consider restoring their free medical cards?

Regarding gross and net amounts, it is appalling that the Government softened the impact of the change by making some important decisions. The first question asked by Senators relates to the meaning of the figure. When someone told us it was a gross figure, we pointed out that the net amount used to be the figure taken. According to the website of the Department of Finance, which was stunningly unsympathetic, devastating and stupid to the highest order, the gross figure is being used because people understand it better than a net figure. At a time when everyone was uptight concerning this issue, I could not believe that such a flippant answer to a serious question could be given. It was harsh.

I listened as the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, discussed another aspect of the matter. In response to a question asked by Deputy Reilly in the Dáil last night, she stated that nursing home charges might be taken into account. I have already given an example. If the cut-off point is rounded up to €37,000, a person with a good annual pension of €40,000 who is in a nursing home and has no siblings or other family faces costs of €4,000 per month. Such person will pay more to stay in a nursing home than he or she is earning. Not taking into consideration nursing home charges would be outrageous. I could provide many examples, but we do not have the time. Will the Minister of State elaborate on these issues?

People are not trying to rob the State. Those in question have paid into their pensions for all of their lives and looked after their futures so as not to be a burden on the State. They take their lifestyles and contributions seriously, but now feel discarded. Anything that can be taken into account in this important issue should be considered. The people to whom I refer are discovering that they may lose out because they have pensions. Those who are obliged to pay full nursing home costs and who earn €40,000 per year would be better off if they did not have pensions. It will not matter what level of pension a couple, only one of whom is earning, has at its disposal. Such people will find it impossible to cope if they are not entitled to medical cards, particularly if a total of €48,000 is taken from them at a rate of €4,000 per month. Members on all sides are familiar and have dealt with issues of this nature on many occasions. In that context, I ask the Minister of State to take into consideration what I am saying.

There are other issues relating to the net and gross position which she might also consider. One matter which has not yet been addressed is the additional costs incurred by the elderly. I refer here to costs relating to physiotherapy and other forms of therapy which these people need as a result of their age. These therapies are hugely expensive.

I wish to put a straight question to the Minister of State. I have already posed a number of questions and I know she will respond to each in a diligent manner. If she is not in a position to provide an answer to the question I intend to pose, I would be satisfied if she could supply it at a later date. When the measure to which the Health Bill 2008 relates was put forward in the budget by the Minister for Finance, it was the subject of much discussion. Our colleague, the spokesperson on health on the other side of the House, commented on the night when the budget was introduced that she welcomed it and that it was great. She was the only person in the country to say or believe that at the time. Those of us on this side of the House were shocked by her comments.