Joe O'Toole (Independent)

The issue is why we put forward these amendments and the matters with which we want to deal.

At that meeting, people asked how they could get involved in the political process and they wanted to do various things such as crowd places and so on. In this regard, I said the thing to do is for people, in a mannerly way, to visit their local politicians in their constituencies to put their points of view. I said they should engage with the politicians, explain their problems and get a reaction. They then asked my view on whether they should all crowd into the Visitors Gallery. I said they should not do that. Nonetheless, the secretary of the Dublin branch of the Retired Teachers' Association, the largest branch in the country, was in here this morning with an active member of the community to meet, as it happens, Senator Donohoe, and they asked that one person would stay to keep a record. That one person represents — I guarantee the Minister of State will get this in writing from me and from them — the Retired Teachers' Association. I have spoken to the general secretary of that association, primary and post-primary, in the past hour and I have just put down the telephone from a representative of the retired teachers in Dublin. They are appalled.

I can have the Visitors Gallery crowded for the Minister of State any time she wants, if that is the way she measures it. It was a cheap remark. It was unnecessary and unfair on people who will now think the Minister of State has interpreted their position in a most appalling way. They deserve a full apology for it.