Alex White (Labour)

The Minister of State does not propose to accept amendment No. 7 but I understood him to say that he would consider it further and have regard to some of the recent judgments of the Supreme Court, particularly the D case to which Senator Hannigan referred. It is important that the Minister of State considers this between now and Report Stage. Perhaps he has indicated that he will do so. It may be that he is wrong that it is not necessary to specify in the Bill that there is an extra-territorial application.

Regarding amendment No. 9, I thought that when the Minister of State came back on Committee Stage he would give us a reason, but he did not do so. I do not suggest the Minister of State is behaving childishly but sometimes one asks a child why he or she did something and the child replies "Because", and one asks "But why did you do it?" and the child replies "Because". That is what the Minister of State is doing. His answer to "Why are you not doing it?" is "I am not doing it." It is ludicrous and absolutely no explanation has been given. It is not as if, as Senator Bacik stated, the explanation is unsatisfactory; there is no explanation. The explanation is that he will not do it. I respectfully say that the Minister of State must do better than simply say "I am not doing it because I am not doing it."

The Minister of State refers to the common law tradition and to the fact that this area of law extends to the 17th century. I made that point on Second Stage. We are legislating here. The whole point is that we have an opportunity to legislate and make the law. If we were to leave it as it is, in terms of what the common law says, we would not have to legislate. That is a self-defeating argument. We could just not bother codifying the law in legislation and rely on authorities in the common law. That is not what the Minister of State is doing. He is legislating and we welcome the fact that these matters are put into legislation. This is a perfect opportunity to put down, in black and white, what the law should be. To say that we are deriving this from the common law is close to a nonsensical argument.

The Minister of State relied on the argument that he wanted to assure us that no attempt was being made to diminish the role of human rights or human rights organisations. We must examine the Act and remind ourselves of the specific provisions of section 3, which deals with the definition of a charitable purpose, which it lists under paragraphs (a) to (d). In subsection (10) it lists the items deemed to be a "purpose that is of benefit to the community", but this does not include the advancement or protection of human rights. That is a deliberate exclusion of it. It was raised on Second Stage and on Committee Stage by amendment.

The Minister of State has the opportunity to include this amendment but says he will not for reasons that are unclear. That is worse than its absence. He is declining to include it. To someone reading the legislation, that can only mean that the view of the Government, and the Oireachtas if it passes this, is that the advancement and protection of human rights, which has been proposed in various formulations in the different amendments, is not a purpose of benefit to the community. That is the effect of the Oireachtas failing to accept the amendments proposed by Fine Gael, the Labour Party and the Independent Senators. Whether the Minister of State likes it or not and while he thinks he does not want to diminish the role of human rights, it will state clearly and for all time that the Oireachtas does not believe the promotion of human rights is a purpose of benefit to the community. If I am wrong on that, I would like to be told how I am wrong.

The Minister of State makes a curious argument, and some of my colleagues on the Government side also raised this on Second Stage. There is a vague suggestion that human rights can find its way into one of the other subsections, that it is not stated clearly or manifestly but one just has to look for it. This was not suggested by the Minister of State but by a colleague on the Government side. This suggestion that there is another way of solving this problem than putting it into legislation is slightly less than honest. What is that other way in which the issue is addressed in the Act? It is not addressed in the Act but excluded, deliberately, knowingly and, it would appear, advisedly. It is not just forgotten or dropped, but a positive decision has been made to exclude it.

The Minister of State does not need me to remind him and the House that when we talk about human rights as a purpose of benefit to the community, it has very considerable relevance and importance internationally as well as domestically. It is not just a legal issue that there is a body of law on human rights, although that is very important. It is an area of human activity and pursuit which is relatively modern, certainly since the Second World War. The various international bodies seeking to promote human rights and the UN and European Conventions have emerged in the past 50 to 60 years. One would not expect to find human rights in whatever dusty tomes from the 17th century the Minister of State and his advisers looked at. It was not there then. It is a modern achievement — and I emphasise "achievement" — of human activity and ingenuity, not just in law but in practice by people domestically and internationally. Nowhere is it better expressed in the Irish context than in the experience that has grown from the Good Friday Agreement. The promotion of human rights was put at the very heart of that incredible and historic achievement. Still we say it is not a purpose of benefit to the community. It does not add up.