Feargal Quinn (Independent)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Billy Kelleher, and our guests from County Cavan. I must declare an interest inasmuch as I started my first business in Dundalk, 10 km from the Border, in 1960. What a competitive marketplace it was then. It was no different than it is now. Sometimes, items were cheaper south of the Border, sometimes north of the Border. These were the days when there were customs posts on the Border. It is much easier and open now to travel between the two than it was in the 1960s when I started off.

I welcome the Labour Party's motion. It is topical and exactly what we should be debating in the House. While I welcome the motion, I do not accept that the answer is to establish another quango. The answer is competition. I do not believe we can ask the Government to solve this problem. It can solve it in certain ways by making the marketplace more competitive.

Several questions arise in this debate. As Senator Cecilia Keaveney asked, why are items dearer in the South than in the North? For example, a large scale soap manufacturer in Birmingham sells its products in Great Britain and Northern Ireland at the one price as it would be unacceptable to have two different prices. Regardless of whether a retailer is in Inverness, Scotland, Derry or Newry, while it costs a lot to transport them there, the manufacturer will charge the same price as it would for a retailer in Coventry or Manchester. The shop in Dundalk, however, is part of a different system. Retailers, be they in Dundalk or Belgium, will be told by the soap manufacturer that there will be charges for transporting the product to Belgium or across the Irish Sea to Ireland.

Since the Border no longer exists in a customs sense, it is possible to overcome this. The retailer in Dundalk can travel to the North and bring goods back to the South. It is not healthy from our economic point of view, however, to have those jobs in wholesaling and distribution take place north of the Border.

I am concerned about the use of the term "unpatriotic" to describe those who shop across the Border. I do not accept it. My mother came from County Armagh, my father from County Down and I was born in Dublin. I would hate anyone to think that it is being unpatriotic to regard someone from north of the Border as not one of us. We spent many years trying to get our independence. We were very upset when we did not get the Six Counties as part of the Republic. To insinuate that it is unpatriotic to travel north of the Border to shop is not acceptable. The farther one lives from the Border, the more one regards the North as "them" rather than "us". Senator Cecilia Keaveney will be aware that the closer one lives to the Border, the more likely one will regard it as one. I recall going with an assistant from Limerick to buy a wedding present when I said we should buy some linen from Northern Ireland. My assistant asked would I not support our own. We should not allow that thinking.

The answer to this issue is competition. If we are to have a competitive marketplace for those who live south of the Border, we must ensure our costs are competitive. In a way, I might be making excuses for retailers, but rents and rates are higher. Just this week Dublin City Council increased its rates at the time it should not do so. Public sector spending must be tackled. In 1985 we got scared when we almost lost control of our currency. Then we managed to make those uncomfortable cuts which we were not willing to accept before. We must recognise that Government spending must come down. We have high waste disposal charges and expensive energy costs, combined with the new problem of sterling rates being much more attractive.

It is interesting that people in the North come to the South for entertainment such as holding weddings in hotels. That is not about price, it is about value. The hotels in the South seem to be able to do a better job and give a better service. It is not just a matter of price. If we are going to compete, it will have to be in so many other ways. The cost of parking in Dublin has gone up by 20 cent per hour while Newry offers free car parking. These are examples of how we can introduce better service to shoppers.

I am concerned that the Government and the media do not differentiate between price and value. One recent survey compared the Irish supermarket price of a top quality chicken with the cheapest chicken in a discounter. That is not comparing like with like. Last week, I got annoyed with a headline in The Irish Times which asked, "Why is Kerry Gold butter twice the price in the South than in the North?". Yesterday, down in the bottom right-hand corner of page 15 of The Irish Times was an apology that the newspaper had measured a 450g pack of butter in the South against a 250g pack in the North. There is a certain hysteria and belief that the position is far worse than it is. The answer is in our own hands. It includes Government and county council action in reducing costs to ensure a competitive marketplace. There are more shops in the South per head and per square area than in other part of Europe. Let us ensure we encourage competition but let us ensure also we remind people that it is not just a question of price, it is a question of value as well.