Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)

I thank Senator Healy Eames for a fine contribution. This debate is necessary and welcome. It is not about personalities, hair cuts and washes, foreign travel or the appointees of Government to State boards; it is about leadership. In this case, it is about lack of leadership, bad management and lack of accountability and transparency.

As Senator Healy Eames asked, have we heard an apology to the Irish people for the abuse of taxpayers' money and the lack of accountability? Have we drawn a line in the proverbial sand because Mr. Molloy has resigned and, as Senator Healy Eames said, it is over? It is not over. It is not just about Mr. Molloy and should not be.

Senator Norris in his remarks spoke about inaccuracies. I will defend the Fine Gael party's right to question and advocate on behalf of the Irish taxpayer. I will defend the right of Fine Gael to look for value for money and accountability. All we have seen thus far is obfuscation and evasion. The Senator speaks about inaccuracies. Let us put it on the record. We have seen lavish expenditure and bad use of resources, and we see a glaring need for accountability and reform of the way in which appointments to State boards and agencies are made. I do not accept the view that all those on State boards and agencies are in the wrong. Some of them do a good job and more of them are there because they are political appointees, filling the vacuum and fulfilling the need of a Fianna Fáil Minister in particular to put cronies on the board. These are the facts. Let us be real about it.

I have good regard for the Minister of State. I mean this honestly. However, his speech today lacked punch and direction. Fundamental questions remain regarding FÁS and its composition in this sorry saga. Perhaps it is because FÁS is seen as an extended Fianna Fáil cumann in many parts of Ireland that it has been tarred by this brush. The Minister of State may laugh but it is the truth. FÁS has become a juggernaut that is out of control. That is the fundamental point and I take no comfort or solace in stating that.

FÁS must be cleansed by itself and its political masters, the Government. There is a fundamental need for accountability and transparency. Where have we heard that before? However, it still has not happened. Now, in an economic downturn and recession, FÁS is needed more than ever and this must be at its core. Its need has never been greater than in this new Ireland where a generation of young people have never encountered hardship, had to make sacrifices, been on a training programme or on a dole queue, been forced to make a decision on travelling abroad to work or had to walk into a labour exchange and queue to sign on the register.

Let us have a restoration of trust and faith in FÁS. I want to differentiate clearly between the board of FÁS and in some cases the management and the excellent work done in the training centres by dedicated staff who lecture, provide training and do a decent, honourable day's work but have their resources cut and must borrow and beg management for resources which they do not receive.

People and supervisors on community employment schemes do wonderful work in building Ireland and communities, which the Government has not done. They are filling the vacuum created by the Government's neglect. Let us not put everybody in the one category. Let us differentiate between the board and management of FÁS and community employment schemes and the good work done by FÁS workers. Events have clouded the judgment of ordinary people. The ordinary people working in FÁS, such as lecturers, clerical officers and apprentices have been maligned by inference by this sorry debacle.

As Deputy Enda Kenny stated in June, long before this happened, we need a zero tolerance approach to waste by the Government and its agencies. We have not seen this and we have no hint of it. Unemployment has increased and, as the State training and employment agency, FÁS has a duty and obligation to step forward. This fundamental point is as pertinent today as it was when Manpower and AnCO existed. The years of mismanagement which came to light in the past month must be put on the political compass, as must the fact that the duty of FÁS is to train, retrain and upskill. We can discuss waste of taxpayers' money but I will not go into a litany of what happened in FÁS. However, I will repeat my core and fundamental point, made as a former director of adult education, that retraining, upskilling and training are what we should be about.

Linked to this is the wider debate about public services and public sector reform. The Government's greatest banner of public sector reform was decentralisation. It made a botched job of it and in the budget this year we saw it was cancelled, postponed and put on ice. It is more money gone wrong. The public servants of Ireland are honourable, decent professional people who do an excellent job and who require dynamic Government leadership to motivate, reform and bring in efficiencies. However, that has not happened.

I feel strongly that public sector employees are maligned and lampooned by commentators and some in politics but they have received no leadership from Government. We need better public services for our citizens. We need a smaller Government which takes on board the new Ireland of this economic downturn. Our public servants do a good job, be they teachers, nurses, gardaí, firemen or people working in the Oireachtas, county councils or the health services. However, they need leadership and they are not getting it. Similarly with FÁS, we do not have it.

Lavish spending must end and the restructuring of agencies must be put on the front burner of politics. In his thoughtful contribution, Senator Ó Murchú spoke about the role of FÁS and I agree with what he said. However, he missed out on the fundamental point that it is the job of this House, the Dáil and the Committee of Public Accounts to hold FÁS accountable for the expenditure of money on behalf of the Irish taxpayer. That is what leadership is about. It is not about coming here, passing it off and stating that we are misaligning ourselves on the issue of community employment schemes. It is about competency to govern and manage and that is what has been missing in this entire sorry saga.

I wish the Minister of State well with fixing FÁS. Its fundamentals need restoration and urgent attention. The board of FÁS should do the honourable thing and consider its position. The Minister of State and his colleagues in government would be best served by telling the Irish people that they have made a mess of it, calling an election and letting the people decide who best to govern and provide leadership for our country. The Government's 11 years in power are epitomised by the arrogance of the past two weeks. It is not good enough. Ordinary Irish citizens, as the Minister of State knows from his constituency and his responsibility for labour affairs, are in the unemployment line queuing for benefits. We are discussing people, not commodities, figures or statistics. People are affected by this and shame on those who brought it upon them.