Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)

I dtosach, cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. Tá an-áthas orm go bhfuil na ráitis seo ag tarlú. Bhí díospóireacht maidir le FÁS ag teastáil uainn le tamall fada, sar a thosaigh an chonspóid seo ar chor ar bith. Tuigimid an tábhacht a bhaineann le FÁS. Ní gá ach dul isteach in aon phobal áitiúil sa tír chun an obair ata déanta ag FÁS a fheiscint. Gan FÁS, níl aon amhras faoi ach nach mbeadh an seans céanna ag daoine áirithe sa saol — bheidís go mór i gcruachás.

I welcome the Minister of State. Senator Ross was not the only person who sought a debate in the House on FÁS. On many occasions, I requested that debate, as did Senator Ormonde and, I am sure, many other Members. Many of those requests preceded the present controversy. The reason for such a debate is the importance of FÁS to the employment environment in this country, or perhaps, one should say, to the unemployment environment in this country. We were also very much aware that a significant budget was provided for FÁS. I think the organisation would be disappointed if a debate did not take place in the Oireachtas on a fairly regular basis. Each morning on the Order of Business there are requests for as many as 20 debates on different issues and some materialise while others do not. We are here in this House precisely to call for debates.

The fact that the controversy has taken place and in many ways has taken over the whole issue of FÁS does not mean that in some way we should focus only on the controversy. I do not accept that to talk about the basics of FÁS in some way is an attempt to create a barrier in terms of debating the main issue of the controversy. I do not accept that the Minister of State was in any way out of line in asking that we would focus on the core mission of FÁS. If we do not focus on the core mission of FÁS and we are talking of €1 billion, what exactly are we aiming at in any debate that takes place?

For instance, if one were on board a ship and it sprung a leak, of course one would endeavour to do something about the leak, but one would also have to consider all the other people on board. One has a duty to give them confidence, to calm them, to direct them. That is precisely the reason that on several occasions on the Order of Business since this controversy started, I have focused on the role, the success and the mission of FÁS down through the years.

I do not intend to spend a lot of time speaking about the controversy because it has taken up miles and miles of column inches and has been predominant on much of the broadcasting services. The issues in question are being dealt with in a professional manner. This was one of my requests on the Order of Business, that any issues that come forward should be dealt with in an accountable and professional manner. The Committee of Public Accounts will deal with the matter, as will the Comptroller and Auditor General, and I am confident the Department and the Cabinet will also deal with it. In many ways we are prejudging the outcome of those examinations. It is very easy to say this or that happened and we have information as a result of the Freedom of Information Act, and so be it, but the issues are much more implanted than that and they have to be dealt with comprehensively.

The one danger I saw in all this was that if we did not focus on the mission, the role, the success and the potential of FÁS, we would do danger to the vehicle which we need at a time of rising unemployment, which is nearly 7%. We are all aware of the international credit crisis, the global crisis. We spent a whole night here in this Chamber discussing the guarantee to the banks and so far we have been proved right in the approach to that crisis, but that approach was not taken without a lot of thought and advice, much of it given very quietly but it was very focused.

The people who will suffer if FÁS suffers in the current debate will not be the people at the top, it will be the people in every local community in this country. Senator Ross has been praised for the good work he did but when I was discussing FÁS prior to the present controversy, I never saw Senator Ross standing up and focusing on the good work it did. He has been doing that in the media and he did it today and recently, but in the early discussions on FÁS, he was totally focused on a different issue.

I questioned who would speak about the vulnerable people on the ground. I hope that I would be one of those. Such young people needed help and FÁS provided it. Thousands and thousands of people were placed in jobs as a result of training by FÁS. Each time a local company or a local industry closed, the first call was always to FÁS to step in with fire brigade action and to show that something was being done. It provided training and opportunities for new employment. That was in the past and it is much more needed in the present. It has been suggested that because the Minister of State comes into the House today and tells us what is being done for redundant apprentices and tells us what will be done when companies close down and about evening classes and retraining, in some way this is not relevant, simply because we are discussing the controversy only. I am delighted the Minister of State came forward with practical information. My hope is that when the dust settles, the structure of FÁS will be still intact. There is not a region in this country where FÁS has not done outstanding work.

The question was asked as to the reason FÁS had a bigger budget in a time of full employment. The reason was that FÁS picked up all the work that had to be done at community level. If FÁS is taken away from all those schemes, whether it is sports fields, community centres or whatever else, and is not allowed to continue its work, I assure the House that volunteerism will be dealt a deadly blow. People who are not able to go into mainstream employment have been kept on through FÁS schemes. What would happen to them otherwise? They would be sent to the local labour exchange. How much does keeping them on with FÁS save the State? Up to €30 a week per person. The small people — I do not mean that in a derogatory sense — always get lost in this type of debate while the big people will be centre stage. Those thousands of small people must be remembered in these debates.

Even though we must have proper governance and accountability in semi-State agencies, the Minister of State pointed out that before there was ever any controversy, the Government had already worked with FÁS to initiate an analysis of its role. This did not come lately. I hope there will be further debates on FÁS and this is not just a one-off. As well as examining the activities of a few, we must also praise the 98% of FÁS employees who have served this nation and State well. They are the people working in the community.