Alex White (Labour)

I entirely agree there should be a debate on the issue raised by Senator O'Toole about the banks. However, on its own capitalisation of the banks would not achieve what Senator O'Toole says we need to achieve. There must be conditions associated with capitalisation of the banks by the State if that is what is to occur. Senator O'Toole is right in stating that it cannot be done on its own. The whole point of the argument made by my party and others is that we cannot just dump money in but that we should make it conditional. We should take an equity stake in the banks so that the Government does not just have the type of arms-length, supervisory control that has been canvassed in the context of the guarantee, but part ownership. Ownership would give it control, and then it could get on with achieving the outcomes that Senator O'Toole rightly says need to occur if recapitalisation takes place. The Senator is right in stating that there should be a plan, and it is amazing that we do not yet have one. We have called umpteen times for the kind of discussion that we all feel needs to occur.

I agree with Senator O'Toole in what he said about last night's "Prime Time Investigates" programme. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate in the House involving the Minister with responsibility for labour affairs and possibly the Minister for Transport. One aspect of the programme was that, notwithstanding that the Department of Transport appears to be aware of many breaches of employment law in the road haulage sector, it has never revoked a single haulage licence, which is extraordinary in circumstances in which it knows about these abuses. I ask the Leader to arrange for the Minister with responsibility for labour affairs to come to the House.

I agree it is not a question of blaming the Minister of State for a particular state of affairs in his area, but there is an issue with regard to where we look for responsibility, including political responsibility. I heard one of the people last night on the programme — I think it was Mr. Quinn, whose issues we will not go into here — make an extraordinary statement in view of his former responsibilities as a spokesperson for the haulage industry. He stated that there is plenty of legislation and there are lots of agencies and quangos so if workers did not understand their rights it was not his fault. This type of hand-washing is also problematic in so far as it applies to Ministers. We need to introduce the legislation we were promised nine months ago, the Employment Law Compliance Bill, which was published last March but which has not been advanced. We need to consider this legislation.

I agree with what Senator Fitzgerald said about the public sector, but it is amazing that some people — I emphasise "some" — a small number of people in the private sector constantly seek to dump everything on the public sector. They say the public sector is a burden we are carrying around. However, if some of those people — I emphasise again that I am talking about a small number of people — in the haulage industry and, as was pointed out on last night's programme, the hospitality industry and among those employing domestic workers spent less time complaining about the public sector and regulations and more time honouring their own responsibilities——