Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)

I welcome the Minister of State to the House and commend him on bringing forward this Bill. Debate on the subject of this Bill has been ongoing for the past ten years and this Bill is the culmination of that debate. It is not before time that it has been introduced. Approximately 7,000 organisations have charitable status and that number is increasing. A vast amount of money, in the region of €2 billion, is collected for charities annually. It is imperative that all charitable organisations are properly registered and that the funds collected are given to the charities named in the collections, but that does not always happen. It has been a practice for some time for some organisations to give lucrative percentages to collectors on behalf of the organisations. An extreme example of this came to my attention some years ago. Collectors were giving 70% of the money collected to an organisation. Those involved used the names of people suffering from an ailment in an area as collecters went to each house explaining that the money collected would assist in funding research into the ailment concerned. I exposed that practice at health board level and thereby prevented that type of abuse in the system.

I established the Kosovo Refugee Aid in 1999, which obtained charitable status. I take this opportunity to commend all those who participated in that charity, which is still registered. None of the volunteers, the secretary, chairperson and others who worked for that charity, received a euro in expenses. All the money collected was ploughed back into providing assistance to the people of Kosovo at that time and in assisting people from Kosovo who came to Ireland. That was the objective underpinning that charity and I know the procedures that were involved.

I would like the Minister of State to elaborate on the request made by Senator Coghlan concerning sports organisations. I know from the Minister of State's involvement in his constituency that he was one of the leading lights in an organisation there. I know that if it is possible that this Bill could allow for the registration of sports organisations as charitable organisations, which effectively they are, he will be prepared to consider that request. This is significant legislation. Far too often in every town and village throughout this country people make collections for organisations and members of the public do not know what they are about. These organisations can say they represent the disabled or former polio sufferers and impress on people to contribute to the charity concerned. Irish people are very generous. Collectors for such organisations position themselves outside the post office on a Friday when people go there to collect their pensions and invariably the organisation for which they are collecting is not based in that locality. The people collecting for organisations based elsewhere and people generally do not ask the collector for the permit number, which they are entitled to do to determine whether the charity is legitimate and the money will be given to the cause it purports to represent.

There is also an issue concerning church gate collections, which the Minister of State will have to resolve. It concerns all political parties, which are allowed to collect funds on certain days in the year. That is done by volunteers collecting for voluntary organisations, which is fair enough. A reasonable approach must be taken and rules must be brought in to cover those dates. Where permits are given for church gate collections, organisations should not exploit their membership by trying to extract more money from people. I refer, for example, to a collection for an organisation representing people with disabilities where a disabled person is present at the collection. That is not necessarily required but I have come across cases where disabled people were out in poor weather. I do not know whether they were volunteers or whether they were requested to appear at collection points to extract the maximum amount of money in donations.

The Bill is comprehensive and well researched. A large number of submissions were received from organisations throughout the country. The general consensus is that the Bill has been well received. Charitable organisations know there is a need to tighten up the regulations and bring about a more rational approach to charities, which is what the Minister has achieved in the Bill. I read through many sections of the legislation and it appears to be workable and comprehensive. I expect the Bill will be passed as quickly as possible.

Members of local authorities are excluded from membership of the charities regulatory authority, as are all elected representatives, Members of the Seanad, Dáil and the European Parliament. All elected representatives who were appointed to the authority prior to their election or selection will have to step down from their positions. There is a tendency in Bills currently to exclude public representatives. Others who are excluded from membership of the authority include those who have been bankrupt or who have committed offences. Section 3(3)(c) and (e) and (f) of Schedule 1 refer to a person who "is convicted of any indictable offence in relation to a charitable organisation or charitable trust", or who "is convicted of an offence involving fraud or dishonesty, whether in connection with a company or not", or who "is sentenced by a court of competent jurisdiction to a term of imprisonment".

Public representatives are included in the group of people who are excluded from membership of the authority. That is a civil servant approach, with all due respect to the officials concerned. They are taking this approach in every Bill. We allowed Members of this House to be on the board of the Personal Injuries Assessment Board. The vice chairman of the board is a Member of this House and he is providing a good service. There is no reason to exclude any category of person. Irish citizens with a right to vote should have a right to be a member of the authority. A councillor should not be a member of the authority by right but he or she should not be excluded on the basis of his or her elected position. That is undemocratic. It is a serious reflection on the integrity, capacity and ability of people elected to public office.

I have no objection to being excluded as a Member of the Oireachtas as we have enough responsibilities as full-time public representatives. The same is true of Members of the Lower House. However, I do not think Members of the Oireachtas per se should be excluded. There is no reason a Senator who has a proven track record in charitable organisations should not serve well and be a conduit for an organisation to the Oireachtas.

The Minister of State was previously in the Whips' office and he knows the situation. At a meeting of the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party we agreed a motion that each Minister would scrutinise legislation to ensure this provision was not included. As someone who has served in his area with councillors, the Minister of State is aware of how hard they work for many organisations. They should not be excluded from membership of the authority.