Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit agus oifigigh na Roinne. Níl aon amhras ann ach go raibh an soiléiriú a thug an tAire dúinn ar an mBille thar a bheith cabhrach. Thugas faoi ndeara go bhfuil an Chomhairle curtha i gcrích. Tá sin soiléir sa Bhille freisin. Molaim an tAire Stáit as Bille chomh ilghabhálach le seo a chur ar fáil dúinn.

I welcome the Bill which has been in gestation for some time. All those involved in the charity movement had hoped to see their concerns on certain issues addressed in it. I welcome the broad consultation which has taken place. There are approximately 7,000 charities registered in Ireland which gives us an idea of how extensive the sector is. It mirrors and reflects the attitude of the broader community towards charitable organisations.

I compliment and acknowledge charities which during the years have filled many gaps in humanitarian practices and ensured vulnerable people have always received support. That has been the tradition in Ireland for many years. The Bill does not obstruct but provides support, much of which is necessary. A good deal of the legislation in place is archaic and we have moved on, even on the issue of a common currency.

There have been some unfortunate cases that did not bring glory to us as a people or the charity movement. They had to be attended to and regulated for and I am glad that has happened. From what the Minister of State said and looking at the Bill, we acknowledge established charitable organisations but must also recognise that new charities will come into existence as needs emerge. The legislation does not just take account of the status quo but must also provide for what might happen in the future. That is important.

The number of staff in the regulatory authority will be between nine and 15. That is the correct number because it would be wrong to have a situation where there would be 25 or 30 staff based on representative arithmetic. It is important to have three legal representatives because there are many legal issues involved. I hope, however, that it will not be necessary to use some of the powers being given to the regulatory authority. I am glad to note that subsections with a consultative nature can be established within the authority. They too will have to operate within certain restrictions because they will have to produce reports. They will possibly be specialists in their own right and be able to reflect on a situation that might arise.

It is right that charities report on their activities each year. It does entail extra administrative work but also focuses the mind, which is important for charities. When one is obliged to produce an annual report, it provides an opportunity to consider if the aims and objectives set have been met, how effectively they have been achieved and if a redirection is needed in the following year. It is also good that there is accountability.

I am glad smaller charities will not be subject to the same level — I mean this in the best sense — of bureaucracy. This is very important because we hear that voluntarism is being challenged more than it was, although it has been stated that approximately 1.8 million people are involved in some way in voluntary activity, which does not surprise me. There is also a danger that volunteers might consider that once they provide a service, they are under a spotlight and that matters might be reported on by the media. If an extra burden were to be added, many volunteers might leave the sector and there would be a gap. I am glad the Bill has been thought through to this extent. That is important for many reasons.

Obviously, there will be penalties involved. However, even with penalties, there is always a possibility of appeal. I notice there is provision for a particular case to go to the High Court with regard to whether the charity can remain on the register. It is important to have such provisions because often we end up with what we regard as gilt-edged legislation, but when we try to operate it subsequently we discover the difficulties with it. I am glad, therefore, the potential difficulties have been thought of in advance.

The concept of a register of charities is long overdue. Many of us have been confronted with whether we were donating to a bona fide charity. As has been mentioned, this happens in particular with regard to clothes. The collection of clothes is a lucrative business. When people read the leaflet dropped to their houses seeking donations of clothes, they are often not 100% sure whether the collection is for a genuine charity. In most cases it probably is not so.

It is only right that promoters of a charity who take a major portion of the income for themselves should not be allowed on the register of charities. Everybody has doubts about contributions to such charities. People wonder how much goes to the charity and how much goes to the sponsor and on administration. Covering this area in legislation will ensure people no longer have doubts in their minds. I always feel sorry for charities that collect legitimately but are confronted by public doubts about the money collected. Perception and confidence are vital to uphold the work of charities and ensure their success. Many millions are lost to charities each year because people doubt that when they put their hands in their pockets to contribute or donate clothes the moneys raised go to the cause for which it is intended. The provisions of the Bill can only be helpful in this regard.

I support Senator Buttimer's point about the Irish Cancer Society. We have had a briefing on that issue. While one can fully understand why sealed boxes are necessary, will the Minister of State expand on this issue? As Senator Buttimer said, there could be hundreds or thousands of people involved in collecting for the society and it might not be feasible to provide them with floats. However, when selling an item, if they have sealed boxes they may have to go into shops to get change for people. I am unsure how we can balance this with public confidence in regard to the sealed box. Perhaps the Minister of State will comment on this.

As a person who generally speaks on the issue of human rights, I take up the same point raised by Senator Buttimer. While we do not have an implicit definition of a charity, something we have not had in the past either, the "greater good of the community" seems to be an inherent element, as was mentioned in the Minister of State's speech. The term "human rights", which is all-embracing and expansive, brings the greater good of the community into focus. Will the Minister of State comment on this? Not a day passes in this House but an issue of human rights is raised, particularly on the Order of Business. Full marks to Senator Norris who is at the forefront in this regard. The area is so extensive there may be need for separate legislation, but I would welcome the Minister of State's comment in this regard.

On the issue of the trustees of a charity, I am delighted to see the suggestion that the organisation should or could take out indemnity insurance. Is this compulsory or is it a matter for the organisation to decide? Indemnity insurance is important because the responsibilities arising for trustees as a result of this legislation are so great. This area must be clarified because it is something trustees will be concerned about. We must be sure volunteers are not exposed to legal action as a result of the legislation because they are fundamental to the work of the charity.

On the issue of bogus collectors, I am glad we have covered what might be called "holding out". Bogus collectors are particularly careful not to use the word "charity" in their literature. However, when one reads between the lines, that is the implication. I am glad this is covered so that if by implication they represent themselves as a charity, there is a mechanism to deal with that.

I am delighted the current 7,000 registered charities will automatically transfer to the new regulatory authority. If that were not the case, we would have a logjam and might wonder in years to come why so many elements of the legislation had not been implemented. There are two major strengths to the transfer. First, it recognises the establishment of the new regulatory authority and, second, it presupposes that existing registered charities will not need to go through the same administrative requirements as previously.

I thank the Chair for allowing me to make my points. I support the Bill and am delighted it has cross-party support because it is necessary for the work of charities to continue. The Bill is timely and the Minister of State and his officials have done an excellent job on it.