David Norris (Independent)

I am very grateful to my colleague, Senator Hannigan, for allowing me some of his time. I listened with great interest and admiration to what he had to say as he has a very clear grasp of the subject. My colleague, Senator Ivana Bacik, also has a clear grasp of the issue and we are very privileged to have somebody with that level of expertise, background and professional understanding here.

I welcome the Minister to the House. It is good for us to have a discussion on the report. I congratulate the drugs joint task force, although it contributed only in part to the success of the operation last week. It was principally the result of very sophisticated American and British satellite supervision. Although we played a very good role in the operation, it was an international effort. We have not confronted the drugs issue and perhaps the Minister will return when we consider that issue. The driving force behind drugs is the immense profit to be made. I have often gone through Singapore, where a person can be shot at dawn for having a joint, yet people do it. There is a financial motive that must be destroyed. One way of doing this would involve consideration of legalisation. A Fianna Fáil spokesman on health, Dr. John O'Connell, said that with regard to the legalisation of drugs such as heroin many years ago in this Chamber.

The Minister indicated that after a very difficult period, the State needed to assert its authority and make a response. Although it did so, it was a belated response. The Minister's speech omitted the acknowledgement of the role played by Deputy Tony Gregory, who came up with the idea, although that has never been properly acknowledged. He pressed it on governments of various complexions and not one took it on board. I remember very clearly that the idea was to join up the Revenue Commissioners, the Department of Social and Family Affairs and the Garda. Until Veronica Guerin was shot, we were told it could not happen. She was a catalyst for the process but Deputy Tony Gregory had the initial idea. I spoke to him and pushed the concept in this House but I got the same response. Some of the comments of the Minister are more or less the same as they were then.

I am somewhat disappointed the Minister has set his face against the ring-fencing of the resources taken by the CAB for insertion back into the communities. These people have been bled dry because of the drugs trade and the money morally belongs to those communities. Every time the subject is raised we get a different answer. Earlier responses indicated the resources had to go in, undifferentiated, to the Exchequer and other statements indicated it would be an uncertain and variable revenue source that would affect investment. Why are these resources not put into capital programmes? It comes down to the greed of the Department of Finance, which will not allow it. It would be a signal, a token and an indication of hope for those marginalised and deprived areas and it should happen.

With regard to the events in Limerick, I share the grief everybody feels about Shane Geoghegan, a remarkable and decent young man who was snuffed out carelessly. These people have no shame. This can be seen not only in Mr. Geoghegan's murder but also from the fact that such people are taking money from social welfare payments. They make millions from drugs but they still do not get enough. One of them got a rebate on affordable housing. Those people are beyond any kind of shame.

A number of other questions were raised brilliantly by Senator Bacik. One question related to witness protection, which obviously has to be looked at. We had a very interesting case where, although the witnesses withdrew their statements, we still got a conviction. That is the way we have to go. I have been very much in favour of using video recordings. I spoke at an international police conference in Dublin urging their use for the protection of the police as well. We must safeguard video recordings. It is not appropriate that they be made available to criminals. They should be made available to the lawyers representing them, but there should be strict penalties for the misuse of that kind of information. We already use mobile telephone data. In a recent murder case the movement of a suspect was monitored through the use of mobile telephone records, and that is a very good thing.

I thank the Cathaoirleach, and Senator Hannigan for his indulgence. If nothing else is remembered from this debate we should honour Deputy Tony Gregory whose idea this was. It was resisted. I was a Member of this House and watching the other House when it happened. Without Deputy Gregory we would not be here today praising the annual report of the Criminal Assets Bureau.