Eoghan Harris (Independent)

I strongly support what Senator Fitzgerald said concerning the shooting in Limerick. Sometimes it seems that the city's great anthem, "Alone It Stands", applies to that city. This is not only Limerick's problem but is Dublin's and Cork's problem too. I was very impressed yesterday by the powerful performance of Deputy Michael Noonan who put his finger on the central problem. He said that it was not now a matter of getting convictions after crime but of getting people before the crime is committed.

That means a significant shift in our criminal jurisprudence system. I would like to get through one debate without having people talk about knee-jerk reactions. There is nothing knee-jerk about what has been going on among the public since Veronica Guerin was shot dead. That amounts to almost 20 years of cold fury on the part of the people and still these gangs do their dirty work.

I am not one who advocates wholesale internment but I advocate that we look at the criminal jurisprudence system. It was set up, rightly, by jurors and lawyers who wished to protect citizens from despotism and tyrants. However, this is a social democratic state. No tyrants and despots oppress us other than these gangs. Now the citizens need protection from these gangs and there must be a shift in criminal jurisprudence. The most important point is that the courts seem unwilling to take the word of a superintendent of the police. That voice is the most effective weapon to use to put them away because it treats them as the IRA was treated. If that is done, we should then move legally, using lawyers, and appoint prosecuting magistrates as the French and Italians do. They should be properly trained lawyers armed with the considerable powers that are now on the Statute Book, who would go in and take these gangs out. The courts might then at least have respect for the word of the police superintendent. If a prosecuting magistrate, a trained lawyer, states to a judge that he or she believes a person habitually hangs around with members of gangs and men who have murdered people, the person in question should be selectively interned. We may not like to use the word "interned" but such persons should be taken off the streets indefinitely or for as long as it takes for them to learn their lesson. This would cut out the cat and mouse act. The message the Houses of the Oireachtas should send today is that the murder of Mr. Geoghegan is not just one more crime. We must signal to his unfortunate family and the people of Limerick that alone they do not stand.